Choir Baton Podcast Episode 5. Fun in the Choir Rehearsal with Ashton Humphrey

Ashton Humphrey is a 4th year teacher at Croatan High School on the bank of the North Carolina ocean. (But seriously, his office overlooks the intracoastal waterway.) 

I met Ashton at a Carol Krueger conference two summers ago where we sat next to each other. Over the course of that 3 day experience we connected through social media and various statewide choral events. 

I interviewed Ashton because as a new teacher, he has really adopted Carol's literacy strategies into his program with much success. And while I expected us to talk a lot about how Carol's conference changed our teaching mindset (which we do), I was also moved by Ashton's story of how he first really connected with choir and how he strategizes his lessons/ rehearsals to keep students engaged and having fun. 

In addition to teaching choir, Ashton also is the theater/ drama teacher at his school. Stay tuned to the end for a series of questions that basically revolve around our favorite foods and a fun insight into the where and when on Ashton's upcoming nuptials!

Be sure to follow all the cool things happening in Ashton's choir program on Instagram @croatanchoir and

*BONUS* sign up to download this guide to students & social media posting from Ashton and your host, Beth Philemon.  

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Choir Baton Host: Beth Philemon @bethphilemon | www.bethphilemon.com

Visit Choir Baton Online: @choirbaton | www.choirbaton.com

Choir Baton Theme Song by Scott Holmes

Ashton Humphrey: Do you know that I read this article on Facebook, you know everything's Trump face, but it said that if you drink your coffee black, you are sadistic and you could be a serial killer.

Beth Philemon: Welcome to the Choir Baton, a podcast designed to engage with people and stories, ideas and inspirations, stemming from choir. No other art form, no sport, no hobby, no business requires a group of people to execute a communal goal with just their voices. Join me, your host, Beth Philemon, as I interview guests who are singers, teachers, conductors, instrumentalists, and community members. Together, we'll ask questions, seek understanding, and share insight on our experiences in life and in choir.

Okay, guys, you are about to hear a super informal interview with a dear friend of mine, Ashton Humphrey. Ashton and I met at a Carol Krueger workshop, and I wanted to speak with him about how that workshop has influenced his teaching. Ashton is a fourth year teacher at a North Carolina High School several hours from me. In addition to teaching choir, he also teaches theater. I have been so impressed by how Ashton has really incorporated Carol's literacy skills into his classroom, and I wanted to interview him about this. I always learned something from him when I talked to him and what I wasn't really expecting to glean from this interview, but now, listening back, I'm like, ‘whoa’, is how passionate Ashton is about incorporating fun into all of his rehearsals. I think you'll hear how much Ashton likes to have fun, how much I like to have fun, and how much the two of us, together, like to have fun in this next interview that you're about to hear. 

We were roommates on a choir trip, and we were recording late at night. And you will know that talking to me after 9pm is a miracle because I am not an evening person. So you'll hear my Southern progressively come out through the night. Ashton’s is just there to begin with. But I think that you're going to learn so much from Ashton and his mindset when it comes to teaching as well. Contrary to what it might sound like, this interview is not sponsored by Carol Krueger and her work. However, we do talk about it because it's really our point of origin for friendship, and also is such a huge component of how and why we teach like we do. I hope that you enjoy this interview with myself and Ashton, and stick around to the end for some silly questions about each other, and also a chance to hear about Ashton's upcoming wedding, where he and his fiance plan on getting married and why they chose a Tuesday to get married on. 

So thank you Ashton so much for being a guest on the Choir Baton podcast today. I am just so excited that, you know, you're joining me and we get to talk about all the things.

Ashton Humphrey: Absolutely. I love our little adventures, and just collaborating together. I think we inspire each other. So glad to be here and do anything cool. 

Beth Philemon: Um, so Ashton, tell us a little bit about your history, your journey with choir, and like, when did you even start singing in a choir?

Ashton Humphrey: I started singing in elementary school. I had a great elementary school choir teacher. We had a small honors course at my school. Yeah, it was in Richland, South Carolina, a small town beside Jacksonville. And she actually taught me piano as well, so we kind of formed a relationship, so that was cool. I really fell in love with choir and singing in middle school with my middle school teacher, so I'm really thankful for all the middle school teachers out there. I don't think sometimes they realize how much they inspire their students. I continued on through high school and was really involved in all kinds of music: band, piano, chorus, just really did a lot of stuff and here I am. Just kept on going, and I don't know, I just always felt like it was my calling, and so is teaching, so I married the two together and, perfect match, I guess

Beth Philemon: Now I need to know, what kind of student were you in high school? Were you quiet? Were you super outgoing? 

Ashton Humphrey: Okay, so I was probably labeled a quiet student, but when I was with my weird friends, we would probably do the craziest things. Actually, I know we did the craziest things. I think sometimes now if my kids at my school would do the things that I did while I was in choir and band in high school, I would, oh God. I would sacrifice them.

Beth Philemon: Okay then, my next question is give me an example.

Ashton Humphrey: Oh gosh, well, now I'm like exposing myself to the world. But I remember this one incident in band where a girl’s reed for clarinet may have got soaked in Tabasco or something like that, as a prank. Yeah, the fun times never end.

Beth Philemon: Oh, you can blame that on a band kid then.

Ashton Humphrey: Yeah, band kids are weird and I take ownership of that, but -

Beth Philemon: I didn't know that you were in band. 

Ashton Humphrey: Yes, I played the clarinet and the bassoon. Good times, but those times are passing.

Beth Philemon: Did you march also?

Ashton Humphrey: Yes. I was a drum major. Nice. 

Beth Philemon:  You were the drum major?

Ashton Humphrey: For two years.

Beth Philemon: Okay, let me, I'm really sad that you guys want me to say this, but can I see like a little, I want to see your like jump drum major conducting.

Ashton Humphrey: I don't think it was ever really good. 

Beth Philemon: Is there really a good drum? Ah, I'm just kidding. No, I want to see. 

Ashton Humphrey: I mean, it's pretty basic. I think, maybe, drum major conductors are just a little bit more rigid than, like, our choral conducting, you know?

Beth Philemon: Oh, super, super. Okay, well then being a band kid and a choir kid, like, so when did you decide you wanted to be a music teacher?

Ashton Humphrey: I'm pretty sure in middle school, I was so inspired by that teacher. I just really looked up to her a lot. And she encouraged me, and I really enjoyed music and singing. Me and my students talk about this a lot. Some of my students want to be teachers now that I have, that I teach in high school. And I used to play school, like when I was little, with like Beanie Babies and things like that. And I would like have a little chalkboard I’d write on and stuff like that. So it was just two things I really enjoyed doing. So. I'm thankful I'm able to put my passion into both of those now.

Beth Philemon: Yeah. So when you went to ECU, East Carolina University, for undergrad, did you know that's where you wanted to go?

Ashton Humphrey: I did. I only auditioned at that one school. So thankfully I got in. That's where I went because my music teacher in high school had went there. So I kind of just went there because of that.

Beth Philemon: And you sang under Andrew Crane. That's right, who is amazing. Yeah. Okay, we'll get to that. How did you enter: as choral music ed. or instrumental or general?

Ashton Humphrey: Yeah, so I was voice, choral music education.

Beth Philemon: Why choir, why not band?

Ashton Humphrey: I just honestly enjoyed choir more. I love to sing. I love choir. It was honestly just a preference of mine, I guess.

Beth Philemon: It's so interesting to me. I mean, I love my band colleagues and I love band. And maybe there's like part of me that could have played an instrument, but I feel like you hear so many more times of band students coming over to choir, than choir students going over to band.

Now, my instrumental colleague, he says something snarky when I get that story, but that's for another day. And I'll explain another time with that. So just quickly, or not quickly, it's an hour long, but ECU, how was that collegiate experience for music ed.? And like, how is that?

Ashton Humphrey: Well, when I went to ECU, we were kind of in-between professors. So that made things kind of interesting for the education department. But I think I learned a few things and I think it's important for everyone to know that you really don't begin learning until you're really in that classroom. I feel like I've learned more in these first few years of teaching, because I'm only a fourth year teacher in the classroom, then I learned in my whole collegiate career. I know there are many things that are important that you learn in your collegiate career, but just getting out there and doing it is the best learning experience of all. And I think everyone would agree with that statement. Also, go see Carol Krueger, not because she will tell you or not tell you, but really show you how to teach, especially choral things.

Beth Philemon: So and that's why, I mean, there's a couple of facets with why I wanted to have Ashton on here today. But really, because he's a fourth year teacher. We met, actually, at a Carol Krueger conference. We sat right next to each other, didn't know each other. Was that your first one? 

Ashton Humphrey: It was my first one. 

Beth Philemon: Okay. So at that one, you'd been teaching for two years? 

Ashton Humphrey: Yes. Well, if that's what you want to call it, yes.

Beth Philemon: Okay. So I want you to like, think about life before that conference. And why what was life like? And what were you struggling with what, you know, what was that like? 

Ashton Humphrey: So I stepped into a pretty established program at Croatan High School. The lady there, Barbara swagger, had built the program really well. I actually student taught there as well and just stepped in my first year teaching there, which was super nice, because the kids already knew me and things like that. But I was just ready to step in there and conquer the world and just like, do my thing and just be awesome. But then I found that, and as Carol says, I was just enabling my students. I would just play their parts over and over again on the piano. I would not understand why nobody was learning or retaining, and honestly, it correlated to their interest in music, as well. I was the only one really working in the classroom. I felt like they were just sitting there and regurgitating what I was putting forth, or teaching them by rote basically. And what we did in sight-reading wasn't really correlating to our repertoire. And it was just all a jumbled mess. Now looking back at it, I thought I was doing so many great things. But now looking back at it after going to Carol Krueger’s workshops, and now doing her methods, and now seeing my students thrive and be independent learners and not need me, it was just a mess. And yeah, just a mess.

Beth Philemon: So, I, one of the things that I love, there’s so many things I love about you. When I hear you say this though, I know that you have completely changed your classroom from first year to fourth year because I look and see what you're doing. I went to Carol, I'd been teaching for three years, and then I was in grad school, and then I'd taught for another two years, maybe, or one year. I can't remember exactly. But it had been a while. And it really took me a long time to begin to integrate ‘Takadimi’ and using all of the games and the sight-reading and the sequencing like she really teaches. And dude, you just like, ‘bam’. I feel like you really ran with it.

Ashton Humphrey: Yeah, that first year incorporating it, like, I went ‘ham’, and even to this day, and I think you would agree, like there's no way you can just incorporate everything all at once. I know my first year, incorporating ‘Takadimi’ and all the ‘solfege’ and things like that, we hardly did any of the activities, just because, for one, I did not take videos or I couldn't remember any of them. And it's just a lot to incorporate. And I think that's kind of what makes it fun. Just adding over the years like more and more, and just perfecting your craft of teaching and getting better, and better, And tweaking things and making things work better for yourself and your students. And when you get that product that you're just so proud of, it all makes it worth it.

Beth Philemon: Yeah, I totally agree. It's such a massive difference. Now, if someone is listening to this, and they have heard of Carol, or, like, you'll hear me talk about it in the podcast: before I attended a conference, I was very kind of anti, because it's like she had this weird cult following. And I didn't really get it and you go to Carol's conferences, right. So thinking, someone's never been to Carol's conference, and they're thinking, ‘Who's this cult person that we keep talking about?’, I think it's important to say that, and Carol would agree, when we talk about her, it's not just her. A lot of it is her, but a lot of it is also her synthesization -

Ashton Humphrey: Of all the methods together. Correct. So it's nothing like, I don't want to say it's nothing new and inventive. Because gosh, she's done so much work. And we're so thankful for all her pioneering and all of her methods that she's put together. But it's like Kodály everybody knows. And like, the ‘Takadimi’, like, she didn't invent that by any means, but she has synthesized it all together where it all works together. And you can actually work on your notation and reading music to where it correlates to actually reading your scores and repertoire in the classroom, which is the main thing that is so helpful about her methods to me, and I wouldn't necessarily call it a ‘cult’ for anybody who's never been before because if you go see Carol's workshop, she is the most giving teacher.

Beth Philemon: Oh it’s a good cult, not a bad cult.

Ashton Humphrey: Oh, yes. You were just saying like, she genuinely wants you to learn. She wants to help you. And yes, it's just a great experience. If you can ever go and if you can, by all means, I think we would definitely recommend that you do that.

Beth Philemon: We sound like, this is a non-sponsored podcast.

Ashton Humphrey: I was just sitting here thinking like, ‘Oh, gosh, we were really talking Carol up’. But honestly. 

Beth Philemon: I think it's also important too, because that's how we met. And it's something that we can always go back to. And we both are still new in this integration of it and things like that. So when I first went to Carol, things that really stuck out to me were the use of ‘Takadimi’.

Ashton Humphrey: I had never heard of ‘Takadimi’ before in my life. And it was actually pretty easy to incorporate in my classroom and my students caught on so fast. So much easier than counting with numbers, so much easier than, oh, gosh, I don't know, all the crazy things that we try to get them to reproduce. Clapping or snapping, or, I don't know, all the things.

Beth Philemon: Yeah. I also loved how easy it was for me to think about teaching them how to switch between simple and compound meters. And day one, by using patching, which I really feel is rooted in Dalcroze, you know, movement-based learning, and thinking about the beat and beat divisions. Yeah, I love how she is really intentional on teaching us how to switch back and forth between simple and compound meter, and also major and minor, as well. And this is another thing too, and I wonder if maybe so many people are like ‘Carol’, ‘Carol’, and then Ashton and I, and other people will say, ‘Well, she's really synthesizing a lot of methods’. It's because when I was in my methods, classes, I was like, ‘This elementary music, I'm not teaching elementary music, I'm teaching high school music’. And I just felt like all of those methodologies were more geared towards elementary music, when really, yeah, it is. Because we're teaching elementary music.

Ashton Humphrey: Yeah. But they don't tell you you're going to be teaching elementary music in your high school classroom, like, you have to teach your kids to read a quarter note or a half note, whatever, you have to go over that. I think some of that is because some of our college professors labeled this as elementary school music, you know, but we still teach that and we have to, and we could go on and on about that.

Beth Philemon: Well, I think it's more important too because there's a shift in education, students are no longer okay with being told what something is, and they want to discover it for themselves. And that's where this has been at a pivotal time because we are now able to help them understand the why, which is another great thing that Ashton does, is he, and you can see this in the videos that he posts on Instagram and things like that, he is so intentional about having the students explore and stepping out of the way. And it's not a teacher-centric classroom experience, would you say?

Ashton Humphrey: Yeah, and I would after, after we do something for my sake, and for my students sake, I asked him to explain ‘Why did we just do this? What is the purpose of that?’. Because I never want to do anything that does not have a purpose, like the same warm up over and over again. Well, we actually talk about that. ‘Why don't we just perform that? What can we fix to make it better?’ and things like that. Always have a purpose in your teaching.

Beth Philemon: So how do you get kids to do something? Why don't we do that? 

Ashton Humphrey: Well, I never really have science, and I guess that's a great thing about my classroom. And I think some of that goes back to they are now taking responsibility for their learning. Because honestly, most of the time, they don't need me. I'm just a facilitator now because they know the basics. They can read their music, and they know how to shape phrases. They know how to make good placement and good tone. And I'm just facilitating this time. That's such a great feeling as a teacher. Today, while we were at the ‘910’ honors choir rehearsal, my top audition group vocal ensemble, they ran a rehearsal today, they sent me videos, and I think they learned like most of their pieces for our ‘MPA’ or ‘music performance adjudication’. So that just made me feel like, ‘wow, we are doing some great things’. Because they did not need me at all. So they kept on going and rehearsing, and that's awesome. And I think that's what we all strive for: independent musicians who are just taken -

Beth Philemon: I think it's so easy to say that and to want to do that. But, man it's that ‘I want you to want me’ kind of thing too. Or maybe I'm just like, old-school, or maybe this is why I believe in therapy. Because it's like, I think it says so much about you. And being able, you're someone that not only talks the talk, but you walk the walk, and I think it's really hard for a lot of directors to be that facilitator. Because they want to be that dictator. I'm thinking of another word, but I'm not saying it.

Do you know what I mean? 

Ashton Humphrey: Right. And definitely there just comes a time where you have to step in and take the reins, maybe right before a performance or something like that, and say, ‘We're coming together now and this is how I want it and that's how it's going to be’. but just to let them set forth and go, and just enjoy singing, and working, and learning together, that's just such a great feeling.

Beth Philemon: And if you are not following Ashton on Instagram, it's @croatanchoir, and we'll link it here. But it is, it's just true. You just see it coming out of his classroom. It's so genuine in what they're sharing and how these kids are interacting with each other, and the joy that they are truly getting from making music together. It's just really, really cool. So we talked about ‘Takadimi’, that was a big takeaway.

Ashton Humphrey: Can I share one thing? That I think is one of the biggest takeaways that I got from going to a ‘Carol thing’. And even if someone's listening that cannot go to a ‘Carol thing’. An idea that I took away from her is that most of the time, and she teaches in a way where she introduces things at the same time. Like you can't just do simple meter for example, 2/4 and 4/4/ You also have to incorporate compound meter as well right with that 6/8, 12/8, 9/8. Also, you cannot just do major scales and solfege and patterns. You have to do minor along with that, as well. And I feel like a lot of the time, I was limiting my students just because I would not introduce them to things because I thought, ‘Oh, man, that's way too hard for them, that's so over their head’. But when I introduce it to them now, they pick it up at the drop of a hat, you know, and sometimes I think that we limit our students because I don't know exactly how to phrase what I'm saying. But I think we limit them just because, honestly, maybe we don't know how to teach it that well. 

Beth Philemon: Yeah, we weren't taught that. We were taught to be afraid of it.

Ashton Humphrey: Exactly. So they are just little sponges, and they want to learn, and they pick up so fast. So a big thing that I took away from it is do not limit your students because of you. And now, we were talking earlier on at dinner today. Our kids sometimes can read music, read rhythms, read tonal patterns better than us now because we're stuck in our old ways. We're how we learn but they're just brilliant. And if you teach them, if you give them the tools, they can do anything literally anything. You just have to facilitate them, I guess. It’s a good word of the night.

Beth Philemon: Yeah. Talking to me has been huge, switching back in minor. What are a couple games, you know, that you love to play with your kids? Because, you know, you mentioned your first year after Carol, you really began to utilize ‘Takadimi’, utilize solfege. I mean, I think you were probably already doing that, but like tonal patterns and stuff. But this year, I mean, you play so many games with your students, whether it's a tic-tac-toe, or the balloon, you know where they like, toss the balloon up in the air and they sing a solfege syllable or something like that. What are some effective games?

Ashton Humphrey: So I have a ‘call bell’, like a bell that you ring, and I just split the class into two groups and we rotate. Person at the beginning of the line goes to the back of the line, and maybe I hold up a rhythm. I like to start with rhythms because kids are more confident in performing a rhythm than a ‘solfege’, especially in the beginning. But if they get their rhythm right, they ‘ding’ the bell, they get a point. So that's something real simple you can do, like you mentioned you would do some tic-tac-toe. If you're able to sing the tonal pattern that's written out on a flashcard on the floor, you get to put your ‘x’ or ‘o’ there, so you can win that game. Also, I have the blue racket-balls that we use to learn about beat a lot. We bounce those to a beat, and then I'll have four students come together. So two people are bouncing the ball to the beat and then two people on the other side of them are bouncing it to the divided beats. So we do that with the balls a lot. Other games that we put away? I don't know -

Beth Philemon: Yeah. So how was your rehearsal structured?

Ashton Humphrey: Okay, so at the beginning of class, we usually talk about some business because we always have something going on, and I try to remind everybody, everyday, what we got going on. It depends, honestly, between the classes, and my beginning class, I may start out with some rhythm patterns before we go to warming up. In my auditioned class, I may just go ahead and warm up, and we just start singing. But usually, I try to incorporate my warm ups with our tonal lessons for the day so that just flows in together. So we're working on all our vocal technique and then right after that, we're echoing patterns, and they're repeating after me. We do play this game called ‘Forbidden Pattern’ a lot. And I know a lot of people -

Beth Philemon: I don't get it. Explain it to me because people keep saying it, and it was a Dale Duncan-thing. It's forbidden to me. It's not forbidden to me, it's hidden. 

Ashton Humphrey: Okay. So to play forbidden pattern, you tell your kids, ‘Okay, this is a forbidden pattern, you're going to repeat patterns after me but you cannot repeat the forbidden pattern’. And for example, you can say ‘The forbidden pattern is ‘Do-Re-Do’’. So you start singing patterns, they sing the patterns after you. For example, ‘Do-Re-Mi’, they would sing ‘Do-Re-Mi’. You sing ‘Do-Ti-Do’. They would sing ‘Do-Ti-Do’, you sing ‘Do-Re-Do’. And if anybody's singing ‘Do-Re-Do’ in there, I get a point. So it's like me versus the class, and they just get really into that and enjoy it. And I enjoy it too, because I try to trick them. And you could do that with rhythm patterns as well.

Beth Philemon: Okay. That's a lot easier than I was expecting. 

Ashton Humphrey: Yeah, it's super easy, and it's kind of fun. 

Beth Philemon: Yeah, when I read it, I sometimes don't comprehend it, but if I can have a conversation with it, or like see it in a video; probably why I love podcasts. Yeah, absolutely. Um, yeah. Interesting. Okay, cool. You have a beginning choir you have an advanced choir and then you teach theater. 

Ashton Humphrey: Yes, I have a drama class. That's a lot. It's so much.

Beth Philemon: Do you feel like your energy though, because you put so much on your kids. You're so much a bit more sustainable than if you were teaching in a teacher-centric rehearsal? I hear like, ‘No, I'm still tired’.

Ashton Humphrey: Yeah, I'm super tired all the time. But I do the work of like 10 people at my school ‘cause our school is kind of small. So I am the drama teacher, the chorus teacher, and a lot of other things. But I still go ‘ham’ in our rehearsals. It's not like I'm just sitting in the corner facilitating like, with my legs crossed. And I know that's not what you meant. So I'm actively going the whole day, like I barely sit down, to answer your question. Yes, it is a lot. 

Beth Philemon: Well, it frees you up to do other things too.

Ashton Humphrey: Like what?

Beth Philemon: Like, walking around listening. I don't if you need to pull a kid to have a conversation with them or answer, like sometimes for me, it's just checking my email in between things because the email we get is insane.

Ashton Humphrey: Yeah. And I love being able to walk around in their small groups, if they're rehearsing on their own and just like, listen to their voices.

Beth Philemon: Or sing with them. Yeah. I don't get to sing as much with them right now because of my voice. But yeah, that's super cool. You also have a really great camaraderie with your students. 

Ashton Humphrey: We have so much fun. And I'm always saying ‘If we're not having fun, we're doing something wrong and something's got to change because life needs to be fun’, especially for these kids. And especially in the times that we live in. And we just started a new semester, and I told my kids, this is a welcoming space. All are welcome here. And I don't know, I just create that positive atmosphere for them. And a lot of them need that so much, especially with, we don't realize all that they're going through. And honestly, I preach ‘family’ so much in my classroom, and we truly are like, little families. So we've played tons of games to promote the bonding and all that stuff.

Beth Philemon: So I cut you off or redirected you or something. When talking about the structure for your rehearsal, 90 minute periods. You warm up, maybe you do some forbidden patterns, then what do you do next?

Ashton Humphrey: So I like switch, switch, switch. We never stay on anything for more than an extended period of time. 

Beth Philemon: Like what's that? 15 minutes, 20 minutes, 30 minutes?

Ashton Humphrey: 10 to 15 minutes. Maybe we're reading patterns for 10 minutes, maybe we're sight reading for five minutes, maybe we're doing an activity where we pull some scarves through our hands to show some legato phrasing. Maybe we're working on a round for two, three minutes. Maybe we're singing through some harmonic progressions for a little while, then maybe we're working on one piece of repertoire for 10 minutes, and we'll switch to something else. So my rehearsals are really all over the place. But I found that that's what really works for me and my students, because they always say, ‘The bell is ringing’, and then they're like, ‘Whoa, class is over, what just happened? We just got here’. And I think I kind of take that as a compliment. Because that means like, we're enjoying what we're doing. And we're having fun and they're really invested. And they're not just sitting around thinking about, ‘Oh, when is this gonna be over?’. 

Beth Philemon: I feel like that's also a very 21st Century thing, because our kids and we, particularly me, are more attention-deficit than ever. And I've really found when I incorporate the modalities of quick-moving, for you know, 10 to 15 minutes, it helps them. But I sometimes revert to being old school and spending longer chunks on things than I need to.

Ashton Humphrey: Yeah, even if we're so close to something and maybe it would just take five more minutes to get it on,, we gotta switch. We'll get it tomorrow because it's not worth just dragging something out and then, like, us feeling defeated and deflated. You know, so sometimes you got to sacrifice to keep the momentum going in your rehearsal, I think.

Beth Philemon: So, I'm gonna get deep here. Whenever I hear you talk about ‘rehearsals should be fun’, your face changes. Like, this is something that is so passionate for you. Where does that come from? Why is that such an important thing?

Ashton Humphrey: Honestly, and I tell my kids this, they are truly my life. And for us to just be able to come to school together, which is sometimes not seen as a great place for them to come for whatever reason, some of them are dramatic, I know. But for us to be able to come together and just have a great time, that just means the absolute world to me. I tell them, and I was reading this study the other day, it said that only about 13% of Americans enjoy their job. And I want to be that model for them, that they can have a job and that they can enjoy it, because I truly do. And I think I have a few teachers coming up now after me because I'd show them that I truly do enjoy my job and I enjoy them, and spending time with them, and rehearsing with them, and making music. We're so lucky, you know? So lucky.

Beth Philemon: It's just infectious being around you in here and like hearing and seeing your joy. Why should someone be in a choir? And whether it's a kid in your high school, or it's an adult, or something like that, like, why choir?

Ashton Humphrey: I think choir is a community. I feel like we are, whether we want to admit it or not, we are seeking to belong to something. Choir is definitely something you can belong to; something you can work together towards, with a similar goal at hand. Fun, it's just fun. I mean, if you're doing things right, it's fun. So that's my number one reason when I try to recruit kids, and I think we all try to do that a lot.

Beth Philemon: Yeah. So say someone's listening to this, and they maybe didn't sing, and they didn't have an ‘Ashton Humphrey’, or they didn't even have a choir program in high school. And they're like, ‘Man, I want to have fun. I want to have fun with other people’. What tips would you give them to potentially pursue joining a choir or starting to sing?

Ashton Humphrey: Well, you know, I know a lot of communities have community choirs. We have one in our small county of Carteret. So if we have one, I'm pretty sure a lot of places have those. Community theater productions. Maybe you like theater a lot. A lot of times are really seeking people out, and that's tons of fun, as well. That's a good community to be a part of usually. Things in the community life that you know,

Beth Philemon: What would you tell someone that thinks that they can't sing?

Ashton Humphrey: It's so funny that a lot of kids will come up to me and say ‘I can't be in choir’. Like, maybe they're in my drama class and I'm trying to recruit them. ‘I'm tone deaf’, I can't say nobody is tone deaf, everybody can sing. And I tell them, ‘You join choir to learn how to sing’, and we teach them. And it's just amazing the progress they make. Maybe they can't match pitch at the beginning, but everybody can sing. It's been proven by science. It releases all the good endorphins and things like that.

Beth Philemon: And you see it, though, with these theater kids that come in and say they can't sing.

Ashton Humphrey: Yes. And then, guess what? They sing. Yes, and they're rock star sometimes, and they end up being some of the best leaders, and some of the best vocalists, because in theater, we work a lot with a voice anyways. The pitch of the voice, the movement of the voice, the volume of the voice, so it's there. They just have to learn how to manipulate it and use it, you know, and that's what our job is all about. 

Beth Philemon: Yeah. Well, I think you're a master at how, like, your angle of fun enables kids to be vulnerable around you. Because wouldn't you agree that choir and theater require a great level of vulnerability? 

Ashton Humphrey: Absolutely. Yeah. And sometimes I'll have these things in class, like a storytime. Everybody gets so excited about storytime, and I’ll just tell them a little something that happened in my day or something like that. And they just think it's the coolest thing and they like, want to know about my life and things like that. And I think some teachers are really, they don't want to tell students anything about them or anything like that. But the kids really invest in you when you share some things, like about how your life is going or special things that happened in your life. I recently got engaged the past few months. And my kids were literally crying because they were so happy for me, it was so sweet. Oh my gosh. But I'm very open with them about my partner, and being engaged, and things like that, because I want to be, and I know we say this all the time, I want to be what I needed for these kids when I was in high school. And being a role model that is proud of who they are, and just living their life to the fullest and being successful. At least I hope I'm being successful and being successful to them. Like I want them to see that and know that they can be that as well because I know some of my students need that. Oh, I love talking with you. We could just sit here and talk forever.

Beth Philemon: You know, I just appreciate you. I appreciate that vulnerability that you give your kids. And I mean, that's the nail on the head. That's the cool thing about singing with someone, I really think.

Ashton Humphrey: And you know, I wanted to bring this up too. Like not everything is roses, as we all know, you know, everything is not fun in my class. I don't want anybody to take that away from this. When you do have those serious moments, being that you have been able to be vulnerable together and have the fun together, it makes them more impactful. And everybody is really buying into what is happening. For example, like if you have this big performance coming up, we're not gonna be laughing and joking backstage, this is serious time and everybody knows that. And  I think everybody's just super ‘bought into’ that because we've just been able to experience each other in such a positive manner. And we're able to respect the environment that's going on and things like that. So I think that helps in serious moments, as well as having fun a lot.

Beth Philemon: Since you brought it up, would you be willing to share some of the things that you've struggled with? Or you know, when you say, ‘Not everything is roses all the time’, someone's listening to this and being like, ‘Man, Ashton Humphrey he has it all together’.

Ashton Humphrey: I honestly don't. Like, today at our little session, the speaker was like, ‘We just want to keep growing and keep getting better’. And nobody is a finished product. And I think that's what we should all be striving to do, is just to keep growing, and getting better, and polishing our craft. But sometimes, I would say, as a teacher, the toughest thing for me and it's a semester flip right now too, so these things are on my mind, is retaining some kids in choir. Sometimes, I think we, as teachers, take things a little too personally, because we sell ourselves so much into our students, and we form those relationships with them. And sometimes they just need to take that class that is offered during your class and things like that. And some mental things, I think, are tough for us, since our hearts are really so there with our students and in our teaching. So I've been trying to maybe get some better thoughts. Like mentally setting myself aside from things because one thing was the lady I was a student teaching with, I forget what she's called now. But one thing she told me is that students are always going to disappoint you at some times, and you need to be ready for that, and that's so true. Like we love them to death, we have such great times together, but it's just going to happen. And we're going to feel crushed sometimes. So that's that's something that as a beginning teacher, especially, I'm still working with, and trying to just get my mind right and wrapped around, I suppose. So yeah, those kinds of things.

Beth Philemon: Because people disappoint us.

Ashton Humphrey: Exactly. Yeah. Life. 

Beth Philemon: It is life, choir is life.

Ashton Humphrey: It is life. Is that a hashtag?

Beth Philemon: Like, it's like the corniest thing ever to say, but I think that's what makes me so passionate about this, is the correlation between what we do every day and this rehearsal. It feels like a microcosm.

Ashton Humphrey: This is getting really deep. We better end this before we solve all the problems of the world. 

Beth Philemon: We're gonna go out on one last question. Well, I lied. One long potential real question. And then I'm going to just rapid fire, ask you some random questions. Here's a longer question. Has there been like one meaningful, either performance experience, or even listening experience, or even song that is it for you? Choir song, not hating on the other songs.

Ashton Humphrey: Um, I'll talk about a meaningful moment. I just, for some reason, I think we all love when we can be really vulnerable and attached to a piece of music, and it can make us feel in such a way that we don't care who's around us or what else is happening, and we just fully invest to the music. And that happened when me and my vocal ensemble students were rehearsing for our holiday concert this past year. And we sang this Ruth Elaine Schram version of, ‘O, Holy Night’ and ‘Silent Night’, it was a mash-up kind of thing. 

Beth Philemon: Do you think Ruth was like, ‘I'm gonna write a mash-up?’. I just love it. Can you imagine Ruth saying, ‘I think I'm gonna write a mash up?’. Sorry, I just ruined the serious moment. Fun, right?

Ashton Humphrey: So, it comes to this part where we've all been singing, ‘O, Holy Night’ at the beginning, and then it changes meter into some kind of compound meter, I can remember. But the boys just start singing the ‘Silent Night’. And they just sang that so beautifully, and with such a great tone that I just stood there in my classroom and I like, bawled. I don't know, I just love that feeling. Like the music truly moved me, and just knowing that it was my student singing that, and it was so beautiful, and they moved me to tears, and that does not happen a lot. So I don't know. That's what stands out in my mind at this moment. Good stuff.

Beth Philemon: It’s always the best moment during the rehearsals.

Ashton Humphrey: Yeah, honestly. I enjoy rehearsing. Sometimes, a lot of times, most of the time, better than the performance.

Beth Philemon: Oh, man. Okay, rapid fire questions, and I just realized, I don't have my normal list that I kind of pull from. So this is just gonna be kind of like, off the top of my head. Um, what's your favorite kind of donut?

Ashton Humphrey: Double chocolate all the way. Like, not ‘all the way’ donut, but double chocolate.

Beth Philemon: Like, what is the double? I don't even know. 

Ashton Humphrey: So it's a chocolate donut with chocolate frosting on it. 

Beth Philemon: Oh, where from? 

Ashton Humphrey: Dunkin Donuts. Oh, stop. You’re a ‘Krispy Kreme-r’? 

Beth Philemon: All the way.

Ashton Humphrey: Yeah, they're really good. There's no Krispy Kreme where I live, so I found that my brain is automatically thinking Dunkin Donuts. I do love Krispy Kreme as well.

Beth Philemon: I also love, have you been to ‘Rise’ in Raleigh? Oh my heavens. We'll go there next time. What's your favorite kind of pizza?

Ashton Humphrey: I’m a good simple boy, I like sausage. That's all. Stop making that face at me. Next question, please. 

Beth Philemon: What's your favorite kind of ice cream?

Ashton Humphrey: I like butter pecan, not ‘pecan’ pecan. That's how we say it in Richlands. How do you say it? 

Beth Philemon: Pecan. 

Ashton Humphrey: Okay, next question.

Beth Philemon: Oh my gosh. What's the one place that you, I think I know the answer to this now, but what's the one place that you want to travel? If you've never been to?

Ashton Humphrey: If I had to choose it will probably be Hawaii.

Beth Philemon: Ah, you want to tell them why?

Ashton Humphrey: Yeah, ‘cause I'm getting married in Hawaii in May. So that's exciting.

Beth Philemon: That's so great. On a Tuesday, but we digress.

Ashton Humphrey: Yeah. And it's special because it's going to be his birth-month and my birthday.

Beth Philemon: Well you didn’t tell me that. I was like, ‘Ashton, that's on a Tuesday’. Okay, I mean, why not? 

Ashton Humphrey: This is fun. 

Beth Philemon: Yeah. It is. I keep thinking of my last question. What is your favorite non-choral song? Or like, I don't know if you have one but -

Ashton Humphrey: Can I be embarrassing? 

Beth Philemon: Please.

Ashton Humphrey: I really love Fergie and Lady Gaga.

Beth Philemon: Like together, or just their songs? And don’t they have a song together? 

Ashton Humphrey: They don't but that probably would be pretty awesome for me if they did. I guess you could say my favorite popular music performance is the Lady Gaga Superbowl. Did you watch that?

Beth Philemon: They all run together.

Ashton Humphrey: Okay, well, half of the billion views on YouTube are from me. We'll watch it tonight.

Beth Philemon: Did you see Lady Gaga and her new movie?

Ashton Humphrey: I did not. I heard it’s really sad. I like heavy things. 

Beth Philemon: That's really awesome. Would you rather, that's a different game. Alright, I'm going to end with the last question. I feel like all of them have been food-related. I did ask music questions, but I feel like music and food go hand in hand.

Ashton Humphrey: ‘If music be the food of love’. Does that apply to this? Probably not. Anyways -

Beth Philemon: Ashton taught me a really great, this could be a really great quote. What's a great warm up that you love?

Ashton Humphrey: So sometimes, I think our beginning boys have trouble getting into their upper range or their mid-range. They want to sing like way down low a lot. So I went to this All-Carolina Men's Fest at UNC Chapel Hill. We go every year, it's a great thing to do. I always take all my boys and they really enjoy it, and keep doing choir because of it. I think that has a reason to do with it. So, if you're in North Carolina, that's a good thing to go to. But the clinician that year was teaching the ‘top to bottom’ approach. So he made the boys start in their falsetto, and then we work through their mid-voice, and then they got into their lower-voice. So he had one warm up. It's on ‘coo’ and they start in their falsetto, and they just go ‘coo coo coo coo coo coo’ and they crescendo towards the end. And you just keep going down by half-step and eventually you get in their mid-voice, and they work through that and it’s always peachy keen.

Beth Philemon: It's a game changer. My boys love it. 

Ashton Humphrey: Yeah, it works. 

Beth Philemon: All right, well, last final question of the Choir Baton podcast, and if you know me, you are not surprised by this. And I actually don't know the answer to this. But how do you take your coffee Ashton Humphrey?

Ashton Humphrey: I take my coffee, and I take my coffee. Every morning, multiple times in the morning, after lunch, after school is over, before dinner, after dinner, I'm not joking. I drink tons of coffee. I'm addicted. But I'm one

Beth Philemon: It’s probably one of the reasons why we're friends.

Ashton Humphrey: Probably, but I'm simple, again. I just like it black.

Beth Philemon: That's what I guessed. That's how I drink my coffee. 

Ashton Humphrey:  Do you know that I read this article on Facebook, you know everything's Trump face, but it said that if you drink your coffee black, you are sadistic and you could be a serial killer?

Beth Philemon: And on that note, Ashton, would you like to tell people how and where, if they want to like, try to be friends with you? I mean, they can be friends with you. Don't steal him away from me. It's all

Ashton Humphrey: I don't know. I feel really bad for saying that last comment now. So sorry, everybody. Yeah, if you drink black coffee, I don't think you're sadistic anyway. 

Beth Philemon: Well, we'll just move on.

Ashton Humphrey: So if you would like to follow me on social media, as Beth said, my high school choir has an Instagram. And I'm always posting stories of little things we do in class that you can get ideas from. It's @croatanchoir. And I would like, before we end, to just thank Beth, because she's a super huge  inspiration to me. It's just good to talk about these things with other like-minded people. And honestly, I feel like you're sort of like a pioneer in this podcast thing, like, you started this thing up. I remember just a few months ago, it was just an idea. And now it's like, third, fourth episode. So it's just amazing that you've done this. And with the Choir Baton and everything. And it's just such a great resource, and not just teachers, but I know all my students follow the Choir Baton, as well. And she has a following from all my class now. So I'm just really grateful for her hard work. And it's so apparent to me that Beth works really hard. And she just puts her all into it. And she just had, I don't know if you guys are aware, but a really great performance at our North Carolina Music Educators Conference, I was just totally blown away. It was literally perfection, beautiful artistry, was at ‘100’. And she's just really inspiring to me. So I want to say thank you to you for just giving your all and really inspiring me. 

Beth Philemon: This is me doing my best to receive this. I mean, I am Thank you. I mean when I say your friendship, and this is what it's all about, though. The conversations and the collaboration. 

Ashton Humphrey: And I used to be one of those people who thought you are only good if you were stuck up and like, didn't talk to people. But now, a few years into it, it's all about the collaboration and the ‘helping each other’ and just being a friend and being there for each other.

Beth Philemon: I like to say ‘insecurity breeds meanness’. And I think that the insecurity can also breed that isolation, because sometimes, as you begin to do more, you can feel even more insecure about things. And it's so important for us to really bust down these barriers of like, ‘Hey’, like me sitting here, ‘I am so insecure’. I was just talking to Ashton, before we started this, about things that I'm struggling with. I know Ashton is insecure about things. And our friends are, and we have to really do a better job of talking about this. So people know that they're not alone and that none of us are better than the other. We're all just seeking to do the best with the best and have fun.

Beth Philemon: That's right. Yeah. So, Ashton, thanks for being a friend. 

And I hope that you guys have so enjoyed listening to this. Again, Ashton is just such an exemplary example of a teacher that has grown tremendously in just four short years, and how he is so student-centered and always seeking to grow as a teacher, and as a learner. And then he does that because of the influence that he wants to have on the kids. The example he knows, that sets, and if he can show his kids that he's constantly learning, that can inspire them to constantly learn, and I genuinely see this every single day. You just can't meet a more genuine person than this guy. So I really encourage you to go check him out on Twitter. Croatan Choir, that Instagram is just, it's just really cool, you'll get so many ideas. And that's why we share, right? It's not to be, ‘Oh, look at what I do’. No one has time for that. But it's like, ‘Oh, I'm doing this’ and to spark an idea within what you're doing and what you could be doing so that we can all do better. Because if we are encouraging one another as choir directors, as choral musicians, as people interested in singing in choir, we're never going to inspire other people to really join this art form. And ultimately, I want more people singing because, I mean, I want a job. So that is all for this episode of the Choir Baton. And until next time, 

Hey y'all. I so hope you enjoyed this informal insight into two choir directors talking about all the things again. I just want to reiterate how special I think it is that Ashton is so focused on making sure that fun is such an integral part of his rehearsal experience. I've seen Ashton's interactions with his students, and they adore him. And they have such a unique and special bond. And after hearing about things that he incorporates in his rehearsals through this conversation, and seeing them on social media, I really think that's one of the biggest reasons why they have such a great relationship with each other. I hope you've enjoyed this episode of the Choir Baton. And I hope that you'll stay tuned for future episodes. If you've liked what you've heard today, make sure you've heard the other three episodes that have been out. And even more, consider leaving us a review on how much you're enjoying this podcast. Do you have any other ideas or suggestions? I'm always happy to hear them. My name is Beth and you can find me on Instagram at @baphilemon. I'm always managing the Choir Baton Instagram account, as well, even though it is a takeover account. You can reach out to me there, as well. Thank you so much for caring enough about choir to listen today to hear someone else's story, and to consider how it can impact your own story as well.