Choir Baton Podcast Episode 10: Dr. Shreyas Patel on Owning your Sound and your Story

Dr. Shreyas Patel’s story of life and music is unlike any you’ve heard before. How do you balance a love for family with a love for making music? How you honor the sacrifices your parents have made for you while discovering who you are and who you want to be? Shreyas’ journey winds through the hallowed halls of England’s cathedrals, the path of immigration, a passion for music making instilled in a California high school classroom, and the expectation to go into the medical field. This interview will inspire you; for no matter your path to or through singing, music making can always be a part of your life.

Shreyas Patel, bass-baritone, is on faculty at Hillsboro High School, in Nashville, TN, serving as instructional dean and coordinator of professional development and teaching International Baccalaureate (IB) Sports, Exercise and Health Science, Medical Anatomy and Physiology, and IB Biology. His educational focus has been in educational leadership and professional practice, holding a Masters in the Art of Teaching, Medicine, and a Bachelor in Biology and a Bachelor in Chemistry.

Patel is an active soloist, chorister, conductor, and musical director. With vast experience from the great Anglican choral traditions at St. Paul’s Cathedral, London, to his 35th musical production, “Hairspray!”, to oratorio performances of Bach’s St. John Passion, Patel is a versatile singer and musician. He has performed nationally with professional ensembles and maintains a busy concert schedule within the greater Nashville community and the national choral circuit. Patel was also the founder and artistic director (2007-2015) of Nashville’s critically acclaimed chamber choir, Portara Ensemble, that seeks to unite various artists and genres of music in the greater Nashville community. Patel is currently a Conducting Fellow with the Nashville Philharmonic Orchestra.

Shreyas currently resides in Nashville, in the historic Waverly-Belmont community. He greatly enjoys the opportunity to work with wonderful artist-colleagues and share music in a world that needs constant reminders of the incredible beauty that collaboration, community, and music-making provides for all.

Dr. Shreyas Patel: @ssp143

Choir Baton Host: Beth Philemon @bethphilemon | www.bethphilemon.com

Visit Choir Baton Online: @choirbaton | www.choirbaton.com

Choir Baton Theme Song by Scott Holmes

Dr. Shreyas Patel: I think so many of us, we've gotten to this culture of ‘I'm going to listen to this recording, and I'm going to make my choir sound like that recording’ because that's what I have in my brain. And we don't internalize what it will sound for our singers and our sound, right. And so I'm very mindful about all the different groups that I'm in. And even the ones that I conduct that I interpret it so that it's beneficial for the singers. It's not about me, the conductor. I'm literally there just to empower them to make music, and balance. That's the CEO of a company. My job is to keep everything in place, but, but it has to be my own work. Otherwise, I'm just a copycat company. And there's no success in a copycat company.

Beth Philemon: Welcome to the Choir Baton, a podcast designed to engage with people and stories, ideas and inspirations stemming from choir. No other art form, no sport, no hobby, no business requires a group of people to execute a communal goal with just their voices. Join me, your host, Beth Philemon, as I interview guests who are singers, teachers, conductors, instrumentalists and community members. Together will ask questions, seek understanding and share insight from our experiences in life and in choir. You're listening to the Choir Baton podcast where we want to know what's your story

Well, it is my pleasure to welcome my dear friend, my mentor, I guess educational-colleague in a sense too, Dr. Shreyas Patel to the Choir Caton podcast. Welcome Shreyas.

Dr. Shreyas Patel: Hello Choir Baton, hello my dear friend from a long, long, long time ago.

Beth Philemon: So Shreyas and I met. Well, actually, we didn't meet. I watched Shreyas from afar, as a high school student, going to hear the university that we both attended, that music was, I guess you could say, a big part of the university within a weird, bizarre sense, but it was. Every homecoming, there would be these music concerts. And the a cappella ensemble at the university would sing, and the unique thing about our university ensemble was that we sang in a semicircle, and it was student-directed or student-conducted, if you will. We had a director, but students conducted, and Shreyas was the conductor of this ensemble, the first time I ever saw them, and I was captivated by his gesture. And if you're a conductor or a singer, too, you know there's certain people that you really like to watch conduct, and others you don't, or you don't connect with as well. And Shreyas is just a really powerful conductor. So I looked up to him from a very early age, from a high school student. And then lo and behold, I went to the university and he was still around, you'll hear a little bit about his journey and why he was still there. But I've been so fortunate to kind of interact with him in the years that I was in school, and then after school and and now we're still kind of reconnecting at this point in our lives too. So I have more stories about that in which I could share but that's that's a fun early one. Shreyas you are not, not from Nashville. You have a unique journey.

Dr. Shreyas Patel: I do. It's a very unique journey. Thank you so much. I just before we go under that, I just want to say how cool is it that I never even realized that I had such an impact? Just from a gesture? Like how powerful is that, you know, and and how it's changed kind of your world and your perception and what you wanted to do musically and what captivated you. So we just never know what's gonna happen and how we impact people. I think it's the most powerful thing and I think as musicians, that's what we do all the time. We never know that to be really vigilant and careful, but that's great. I do. Okay, let's go into this. I have an incredibly fascinating story. I've learned to appreciate it. I was scared about this story for many, many years. I just thought it made me odd and weird, but I'm an Indian fella, and born and raised in the United Kingdom. And I was there until I was 12, 13 years old. And then I emigrated out to the United States and I lived in Florida for a couple of years. And when my brother was wanting to go to UCLA, we moved to Los Angeles. And while I was in Los Angeles, it's in high school. And then my dad decided that he wanted a quieter life and went to Nashville. And so my mom and my brother and I schlepped on over to Nashville, and I have now been in Nashville since June of 2000. So going on my 19th year here, soon to finish my 20th. So it's an incredible, incredible journey, as far as just where I've lived and places that traveled and seen. Yeah.

Beth Philemon: Well, tell us a bit more about your childhood in the United Kingdom, because that's where you got your start in choral music and you have a pretty amazing childhood experience.

Dr. Shreyas Patel: Oh, thanks. When I was in primary school, which is probably the equivalent of our early childhood education coming into like the K-4 realm, primary school at St. Lawrence Church of England, I had a wonderful, wonderful music teacher. And she was fascinating because she would teach us triangular conducting and square conducting just to keep beats and a lot of, you know, kind of what we do in music literacy nowadays, we have the students move their hands though they feel the beats. And we were doing that but actual patterns and, you know, with the rich choral traditions of Britain, and this was kind of a staple thing for them to do. Well, there were several weddings that were going on, and I was singing soprano, with very little training, just kind of naturally, singing very, very well. She was like, well, let's go sing at this wedding. And you can be the little soprano and I'll sing, with you, the treble part, and I’ll play as well. It was at a local parish church, and the parish church was St. Paul's. It was a very small, small church in our neighborhood. Well, that led to a really great opportunity for me to sing at the Chapel Royal at Hampton Court Palace. My little village was just about two and a half miles down the street from Hampton Court Palace. 

Hampton Court Palace is known for wonderful, beautiful gardens. It's the Queen's favorite place to go along the Thames River, Southwest London. And I was provided an opportunity to audition for the conductor at that time,  for the Chapel Royal, and I got it. I was actually the first Indian guy, Indian child, if I remember, to ever have that opportunity. There were one or two black singers in years past, but I think I was one of the first Indians, and I've seen several along the years. But yeah, it was very cool. Very, very cool. And so that was awesome because I would sing at school. I wasn't part of the Choral Scholars Program, but I was almost like an intern. Like, I would sing on special occasions, in services, and on-call because I was a local singer. And I still attended my school. Well, that of course, if you know anything about the Chapel Royals singers, they  will meet up with various larger choirs. But the Chapel Royal at Hampton Court had a very special relationship at Westminster Abbey, and at St. Paul's with the royal family because it was such a revered place. So when there were special occasions, special services, we would get to go to St Paul's Cathedral and Westminster Abbey and do services there. And it's just, you know, I was working with some wonderful people. John Scott was a fabulous organist and church musician. I can't even name half of them, though. It's been so many years since I've done that. But yeah, I mean, I was in incredible places,

Beth Philemon: Incredible literature. Yeah. Wow.

Dr. Shreyas Patel: And I mean, actually we were talking about some music earlier, that I was glad by Perry. I mean, I remember singing that when I was a kid, singing soprano on that thing. 

Beth Philemon: So you're a part of this rich culture and then your family decides to move. And this was a big, big deal.

Dr. Shreyas Patel: Right? And Indian families in general don't really understand art as a career. So my ability to sing in this wonderful place could have led to a lot of opportunities as a professional degree-holding, you know, choral scholar, of course, or whatever, musician educator. But my path changed because we were emigrating out. And so I took my talent. And I took it to a very small little town in Cocoa Beach, Florida, where my seventh and eighth grade music teacher, Emily, Current, Emily, Current Floyd now who is currently in Atlanta, I believe, at a Presbyterian Church. She's a wonderful educator. She kind of helped me with transitioning in the music world and figuring out like, ‘Well, what do I do with a skill that I have?’ because people weren't seeing at the same level. And there were definitely some wonderfully talented, we had a strong middle school choral program with lots of shows, but you know, that's also that big time when your voice changes. And she helped me navigate literally overnight. I think I was singing Hakuna Matata or something, and she was like, ‘What just happened? Your voice totally just changed’. It was fascinating. But yeah, she was instrumental. And you know, as I reflected back on some of the stuff that she was teaching at the middle school level, I mean, we were doing three part music in middle school. Yeah. Actually, probably four part music. Yeah. 

Beth Philemon: That's awesome. And so you kept singing from middle school through high school,

Dr. Shreyas Patel: Then I moved from, when I left Florida at the end of my middle school years, I transferred to California. That's where Linda Reem, my high school choir director, who had been at Ayala High School for many, many years. Ayala has a fabulous music program. I think their band has been number one in the nation many, many years at a time. Mark Stone is the director, he wins awards, I mean it just has a rich history. It’s a huge school. And Linda ream had a fabulous program. We had four choirs and then we had an advanced choir. We had a barbershop quartet. So many cool things, and so I immersed myself in this world until she decided to retire. And then we had a substitute. Her name was Judy Chartran and she was the cutest lady. But we were singing all this Morten Lauridsen when it first came out in the late 90s and studied some advanced music, and then, Judy was a little old school and so she pulled out some Ezekiel Saw A Wheel. And it didn't go so well, but she was a sub and so she recognized that I had some skill, and I was already a student director, and beginning my training as a student director in high school with Miss ream, and she was giving me leadership opportunities and sectional leader opportunities and responsibilities. Well, in transition between her and Aaron Rodriguez was her successor. We ended up having me conducting a lot of the choirs. And I would skip class because why wouldn't you skip class and some? You know, I would have to kind of smooth talk with the teachers and

Beth Philemon: Shocking, that you would never do that. I just can't. I can't believe that for a second.

Dr. Shreyas Patel: Oh, right. Yeah, this is all my wonderful charm. But I got to do the women's choir and do amazing stuff. And then Aaron came from Whittier College at that time, he had just graduated with his college degree. He was a wonderful, wonderful guy. And still is a wonderful guy. And that's when things took off. That's when I really, I was student conductor there. And I had more podium time than I can remember. I mean, I had so much podium time in high school. Just leading choir. And I remember like, for a whole semester, I did a reverse three, as opposed to going in, down, out. Down, in, up. I mean, I was just doing random stuff, right? I would just remind me of the silly little things that we have to be reminded of as high school kids but invaluable. And then I went to our university and -

Beth Philemon: So the next step is for you to get a music degree because you've been doing all this great music education and teaching and it's, it's clearly a passion of yours, right? Of course. 

Dr. Shreyas Patel: Eh, it’s not going to happen! My dad was transitioning, as well, into a new job. And we’re not super wealthy. We’re well-off for, you know, for a middle-class family, but at that time it was a struggle because we were immigrants, and we were hopping from place to place, and he had found the small liberal arts college, university, here in Nashville. And they had a physician assistant program as a master's program, and my dad thought, you know, this field is new in the state of Tennessee. I think when I look back, like my dad was trying to make some really great decisions for our family, and for my success, right?

Beth Philemon: Well, because the culture, like you mentioned earlier, right. Art is not a career.

Dr. Shreyas Patel: No, and even though we have people in my family who played sitar with Ravi Shankar and have been musicians with famous people around the Indian classical and pop culture. They're all pharmacists and doctors, because like every Indian has to be a pharmacist doctor, liquor store owner, and you know, business person, whatever. But my dad thought, ‘Alright, go get that degree’. So I applied to one school. I got into one school and the day I graduated on June the 23rd. from high school, I skipped my grad night, I took my robe and my cap, and I wore on that flight to let everybody know that I just graduated, and I -

Beth Philemon: He was still in California at this point. His family had moved to Nashville and was living there and he was living there with his aunt and uncle. So you just finished up, and then you get on this flight. 

Dr. Shreyas Patel: And there it is. And I've been in here, and I pursued a degree in Biology. And I never took lessons. In high school I took a brief three week piano lesson. But I never had voice lessons. You know, I knew how to read really, really well. So I never really, I just performed all the time.

Beth Philemon: Right. So as a biology major in undergrad, you still were heavily involved in the music program at our school, which was a bonus of it being a small liberal arts school, as well.

Dr. Shreyas Patel: Yeah. And I did, I immersed myself immediately, and I met with a professor for an audition, and there were some rules back then. And the repertoire that they were doing was very early music. Madrigals and early Baroque, and Renaissance stuff. And then, I met with the conductor for an audition and he was like, ‘Dude, come in. We gotta get you in,’ so he got me into the ensemble. And we did a blending session, and we just had a really great connection. And that then led to my joining the choir. And he always asked ‘What do you guys want to sing? What have you done?’ and give us opportunities to share what we know and what our history was like. And so I started introducing music that I had done, that they hadn't heard of, ever, and that interaction with me sharing music and exposing conversations about stuff that I have done, and some of my leadership that he allowed me to have, and enabled me to have, empowered me to have, truly steered this ensemble in a completely different direction, to its success. It was the premier choir on campus and in our community. It was so great. I was head conductor, I think three and a half years before student conductor, then head conductor the last two, I think it was. But yeah. Oh my gosh, I don't know where to go with that.

Beth Philemon: Yeah, well, and it's also really interesting to hear that, because I joined the choir several years after, once that practice of the new music that you shared with him was more integrated into the repertoire. And so our repertoire really looked as if we focused half on early music, and early sacred music in addition to madrigals and stuff, but by the time I was there, that culture of secular and sacred 20th and 21st century music was really instilled by then. So that's kind of interesting, to hear that and it I didn't realize that backstory. So this is all happening though, and you're still a biology major. You graduate. When you're in college, are you, like, what's the internal struggle? Or is it just kind of like, this is the way it is.

Dr. Shreyas Patel: It was, there was this sense of obligation to my parents and, you know, being supportive of what they wanted me to do. And I'm a rule follower, generally speaking, at that time, definitely. And so, I would find it. I mean, I was doing my biology work, I was learning a lot. It was a struggle. It was not easy for me at all. Science did not come natural to me. And I had weak science instruction in high school, so I wasn't foundationally ready either. But somehow I started figuring it out, and I made it work, and I got interested, because I knew the end goal had to be to get into PA school. 

Throughout my undergraduate studies, I kept in music, but I was getting more and more involved in music. And I was starting to accompany full time, I was doing all the voice students, and I was doing pop-up choirs. And I also started singing professionally in the city and connecting with a network of people. Thanks to my professor and other musicians in the city, I was doing all the musicals, because that was my outlet. Little chamber groups and accompanying for shows and any opportunity I could find. I was like, ‘Can I try this?’ or ‘Do you need somebody?’. I just asked a network, and that is what really created a nice community for me, all the while, getting through school, kind of combating this biology world, knowing that I have to do well, I can't not do well. Because where do I go? I mean, I can't do it.

Beth Philemon: Right. When that family honor and pressure and culture. That's Such a part of your identity. And so you graduate with a biology degree and you get into the PA program. Yep. And that also is not a walk in the park.

Dr. Shreyas Patel: Super hard. Went through, flunked out part way, went back and finished up, because my mind was so, again, my mind was like, ‘I've got to do this, but this is not what I want to do’. And it's just not who I am. I started going through clinical rotations, and preparing for board exams and, and in those clinical rotations, I loved helping people, and helping people heal, and talking to people. But there was this struggle about the bureaucracy of medicine and liability, and there's so many other things I could talk about, but I just kept going back to music. And that was where I felt like I was contributing, and I was safe and I could express myself, and I still went forward as a PA. And soon after, you know, finishing all my rounds and clinicals, after two and a half years, huge financial investment, and huge time investment. At this point, I had been in school for so long that I was just burnt out and done and I said, ‘You know what? That's it. I'm done. Finished. I'm over,’ and so I did a career change. And I took some time and I worked at the Subway sandwich store as a manager, and you know, just commuting back and forth, and made a little money here and there, and did side gigs and had an opportunity to substitute teach in a school district south of where I live in Nashville in Glenson county schools. And I subbed there for a whole year on a daily basis, at that one school, with the exception of seven calendar days, where I subbed at another school, and I became part of that community. 

And so while my church job that I had at that time, as the section leader for the bass section, ended up becoming a tour in Germany, and while I was in Germany, I got a call from that school saying, ‘Hey, um, there's an anatomy and physiology position. The kids really like you. My Secretary really likes you, so does the principal. And if the secretary likes you, then I like you’. And so he said, ‘Do you want the job? I said, ‘What do I have to do?’, he said ‘You have to go back and get another Master's’. So, back to school, I went, and I went on an alternative license and started my Masters of Arts in Teaching while I was teaching and taught anatomy, physiology, and biology at the high school level, honors and AP. And then I moved school districts in 2010, when I actually started my doctorate in educational leadership, and professional practice with administration and reform, and I went through that program for three years while I was teaching in the urban school district, in the center of the city. And I've been teaching IB biology, IB sports exercise health and science, IB personal and professional skills, and pre nursing, and medical therapeutics, and medical anatomy/physiology, and medical terminology. I've also served as the assistant principal at that school, interim assistant principal, and I served as an instructional Dean for two and a half years while I was teaching there, as well, on a half time position. And I've served as an instructional leader in our building for many, many, many years. This is my 9th, 10th year at that school.

Beth Philemon: And that biology degree, those struggles to understand the content, and to figure out how to best learn it have now served me so well.

Dr. Shreyas Patel: And they've served my students even better because they are learning how to appreciate the science that I now passionately appreciate and understand in a completely different way. In a very informed way, because I've had to process it so many times and teach it to different people and students so many different ways. Now I really get it. And now students get this really cool, professional physician assistant world, healthcare industry world. You know, the kind of knowledge base that they wouldn't get from a traditional science teacher.

Beth Philemon: Right, right. What an amazing and interesting journey. I mean, it just goes to show what a person of perseverance you are, and a person of love for your family, and an understanding of the kind of where you feel duties might lie, but then also where your passions are. I mean, you've grown a lot through this, clearly.

Dr. Shreyas Patel: Oh, huge, and I continue to grow and it doesn't stop. And even now, my life is changing again, I'm starting to consider new things, because we’re so dynamic, we're dynamic human beings and we mature, and we learn, and we fail, and we learn, we fail. I know it's so cliche, but that's our walk, and we have to embrace it.

Beth Philemon: The thread through all of these changes, though, is your passion and love for music.

Dr. Shreyas Patel: Yeah, yeah. I don't stop. If I don't have it, I'm not fueled enough. All of my colleagues and friends and family members say ‘You're doing too much, you're doing too much, you're doing too much’. And the reason I'm doing too much is because if I don't get that ‘music fix’ in, my ‘choral fix’ - and currently, actually next week is my last week after two years of orchestral conducting with the Nashville Philharmonic, as their conducting fellow, where I've learned so much about the orchestral world, as a conductor, and had, again, so much podium time that people don't ever get even as, as a trained degree holding musician. I'm a non-degree holding musician and I get more podium time and experience than many of them.

Beth Philemon: Right. Well, let's jump into that though. Because there is this thing, you are a professional musician, you get so much podium time, but yet, you are not a ‘quote-unquote’ degree-holding music professional. And I know, at times, that's been frustrating on different levels. Yeah, tell us more about that.

Dr. Shreyas Patel: Absolutely. I just, you know, when we are, as singers, we all have different levels of talent, and our vocal colors sound different. And generally speaking, I have had a really great opportunity, or sets of opportunities here, to perform. And my voice has matured in an incredible way, and so it's worth people listening to. And what I find is that if I don't have the credentials, even though I have the chops, I don't get the gigs. And I'm talking about the high-paying gigs, right? So singing with symphony orchestras on a regular basis, I would have to go find a manager, but, you know, I can't get called on a sub list. Now, I've been in this place in the city for such a long time, my reputation precedes me, so people know that I'm reliable, and I'm a good singer, and I can do what they need me to do. And so I've gotten that, but that's because of my own networking. And it's not because, you know, many times, you just have to have a degree and you can put your resume out there and ‘boom’, done deal. 

But even if I put my resume out there, with all my experience, you know, entail, it still doesn't land new positions. And that's really hard, because I do have a lot to offer. But then what that does, is it starts to make you think about, well, how do I use this skill in a different way that will work? So okay, fine, that's not going to be a thing. And I think over, just in the last month, after many conversations with you and other people, I realized, that's okay. I don't need to go back and get a degree, and I don't think I want to right now. What I do want to do is I want to share my talent and my experience in my own way to find that niche and be entrepreneurial with it. And even if he's starting up my own choirs, which I've done in the past in Nashville: doing contractual work, finding chamber ensembles doing weddings. And that's my thing, and I'm going to do it. I'm going to do some house concerts, and some summer picnic concerts. And we're just going to be creative and find opportunities because that's what it's kind of what you're talking about often. I just want to give the community an opportunity to sing and feel fulfilled. I have a great job. This is all supplemental for me. And I could make a career out of it. Great. If I don't, great, I still have a job.

Beth Philemon: That's amazing. Yeah. Well, and your story is such the essence, for me, of what I want to remind our community is that choir is not being a choir director, or only subject to singing choir in high school, middle school, or college. Choir Is this lifelong activity and skill and you can be involved at it at whichever level you choose to, whether it's singing with your local Symphony choir every week, your church choir, or it's something like you do, of singing at a professional level where I know that you travel sometime with gigs to sing with different conductors and different choirs, right?

Dr. Shreyas Patel: Yeah, and you have to put yourself out there. And again, networking is such a huge piece of it. Your personality really, really makes the difference. Because I think I generally have a very fun and bubbly personality and I'm very sincere and happy, and I'm sure I have my faults as well, but that alone has given me wonderful opportunities to sing in professional choirs and around the United States and abroad. I've had the wonderful privilege of singing with boxy mana in Dallas. I've been out in Austin, in Miami, New York, Boston, singing with all the choirs out there. I have auditions coming up for several other choirs. So, you know, I do plug myself in and the reason why I get to plug myself in is because I've sung with those folks in different places. And they go, ‘Ah, you know what, you should come sing here, let's get you audition, let's connect you with so-and-so’. And so, we have this beautiful community of professional singers who are incredibly talented, and that is their life. And I just get to take a little snippet and be in one or two projects a year that are so fulfilling. And it's incredible. You go, they fly you out there, you have a homestay or a residence for seven days, maybe 10 days, maybe 15 days. You rehearse a few hours, a couple times a day. And then you put on seven, nine concerts. Then you fly home, and you get paid to do all of that. Incredible, how incredible. You get to share your love. You get to share your joy of music, you get to emote, and, you know, ‘be’, with a capital ‘B - E’, as my partner would state. You know, that's just what you get to do. You get to be authentic, and then change people's lives. Because that's what it's all about. Music is the healer. It's changing lives.

Beth Philemon: Are you familiar with the welcome address that Carl Pollack made to the Boston Conservatory students?

Dr. Shreyas Patel: I'm not.

Beth Philemon: Oh, my goodness. So, I first heard this when I was teaching at the Governor's School, and Paul Kerry had had me print this out for all of the students to read. And it's a great statement that he gives to the incoming freshman class, but he says in the last paragraph of it, ‘Frankly, ladies and gentlemen, I expect you not only to master music, I expect you to save the planet. If there is a future wave of wellness on this planet, of harmony, of peace, of an end to war, of mutual understanding, of equality, of fairness, I don't expect it will come from a government, a military force, or a corporation. I no longer even expect it to come from the religions of the world, which together seem to have brought us as much war as they have peace. If there is a future of peace for humankind, if there is to be an understanding of how these invisible internal things should fit together. I expect it will come from the artists because that's what we do.’

Dr. Shreyas Patel: That's so beautiful,

Beth Philemon: Right?

Dr. Shreyas Patel: That's incredible. That's my message. Yeah.

Beth Philemon: Yeah. I'll send you the rest of that speech so you can see it, and for those listening, I'll link it in the show notes. You are an amazing singer, and an amazing conductor. But those require similar and different skills. How would you compare it and contrast bouncing between the two?

Dr. Shreyas Patel: It can be tough at times, because sometimes you want to interject as a singer and kind of say, ‘Well this could be done. How could we do this to make this particular sound?’, or maybe change something in a section or phrasing wise. So, there is that healthy balance of professionally suggesting, or maybe asking a question that could provide clarification so that the conductor can then interpret. But I allow them to use it to be interpreted. I think so many of us, we've gotten to this culture of ‘I'm going to listen to this recording, and I'm going to make my choir sound like that recording’ because that's what I have in my brain. And we don't internalize what it will sound for our singers and our sound, right. And so I'm very mindful about all the different groups that I'm in. And even the ones that I conduct that I interpret it so that it's beneficial for the singers. It's not about me, the conductor. I'm literally there just to empower them to make music, and balance. That's the CEO of a company. My job is to keep everything in place, but, but it has to be my own work. Otherwise, I'm just a copycat company. And there's no success in a copycat company. Because nothing is real. So I try, I really do try to make my own music and own how I interpreted that. As best as I possibly can, yeah. That's how I kind of manage the two. 

Beth Philemon: And how we can learn as singers from someone else's own aural image too, it’s really powerful. You have started your own semi-professional ensemble in the past, and you no longer conduct them anymore. But nonetheless, you started this ensemble from the ground-up and they were a part of some really cool opportunities within the city, in Nashville. I remember I sang with you guys. We did one concert together that I like it was very cool, different music religions of the world, I believe, but then we also did Bach and heylia Analia

Dr. Shreyas Patel: That was just a couple weeks ago for us here.

Beth Philemon: Oh really? I wore my Bach malea shirt when I was in grad school and I had my big Bach midterm. I wore my shirt to like, channel anything I could. But what are some things that you learned from that process of starting your own choir, and tips that you might have for someone else that's interested in doing that?

Dr. Shreyas Patel: So yes, when box Humana moved from Nashville to Dallas, under the direction of David Childs, the remaining singers here in Nashville really had nowhere to go anymore. There wasn't an outlet. So I decided that Portara Ensemble would become the next big thing. And I just took all of my friends and colleagues and people who are talented and interested, and I said, ‘Let's put on a show’ and ‘Here's how we're going to do it’. We did four rehearsals, and we put on two concerts. And music is one rehearsal per week. And the expectation was, ‘Hey, be ready music note-ready and we'll shape things in our rehearsal, fix notes as we need to, but generally speaking, you are fabulous musicians’. Well prove it, but see what you can do. And you can make this way you want to make it. And the goal was to have a collaboration between art and Nashville, and pair that with music, and religion, and social justice, and things like that. So I ran that for 7 years as the executive director, artistic director, and then solely as artistic director and conductor. And I learned that it is so hard. It's incredibly hard. 

You have to do so many things. And if you don't get people behind your ensemble, because I was really doing all the work. I was writing the program, I was writing the program notes, I was selecting the repertoire. I was getting input, but I was still doing all the management of personnel, making the rehearsal schedule, having everything, venues, that's a lot of work, and I was also the sole investor for the first two and a half years. Because we were giving free concerts, and I really wanted to make this an opportunity where singers could get paid just for concerts and, you know, rehearsals, I wasn't able to, but if they get remuneration for the concert, or gas something, then that would be an investment for them. That would help them go, ‘You know what, I'm going to get something out of it, even if it's something little against me’. But I did a lot of thematic programming. And the hardest part about thematic programming is finding a through-line where you can connect with the audience. There are choral concerts are so passive, that people sit there and they listen to you sing, and wave your arms. And you talk to them a little bit about what's already on the page. But there's no story, and towards the end of my time with Portara, I was starting to realize my concerts are boring, even though they sounded amazing. And they moved people in different ways. 

They were boring because it was a static environment. And the classical music industry and the choral music industry is so passive. Our job is to not only share the music and talent, but engage in conversations. And it was all one way: we're just talking to the audience. The audience is not talking to us. So I would provide opportunities for drawing and writing and talkbacks. You know, just giving them other avenues to discover, whether it was through art or, you know, live dancing or something that they could participate in. So it wasn't so passive and that started something really wonderful. Yeah, I think that was, you know, just to talk about some of the really cool things about running your own ensemble. But you know, you have to be a good manager, you have to be a good leader. You've got to be careful about what you say. And I, you know, I said a lot of things I shouldn't have said. Because you never know, like when you told us your story at the beginning, you never know what you say and do could truly impact someone's life. And I've lost singers because of that. And that was in high school. We lose singers because we say things that are just so harsh. And we've just totally destroyed that person's possibility. Because the choral community is so unique. It's so safe. It's not as competitive as the orchestral community, where everything is a competition. You know, choral music has to be safe.

Beth Philemon: It's not always though.

Dr. Shreyas Patel: Right. Not always. Yeah. And the director oftentimes is the sole person that makes that environment. So, you know, just being empathetic and being a servant leader and having great organizational skills, so that people don't get frustrated, they can come and be relaxed and performance sing and leave fulfilled, as opposed to being spent. You know, even the way we run rehearsals, having that time for some fellowship and chatting about what's going on in our lives and doing fun games and those are all important things in building a good community, because if you have a good community, then you have a good sound. Because you're all on the same page.

Beth Philemon: And I think that's where I see holes in my own leadership as a conductor. You're so right, in when I focused more on music than the community, that balance is out of whack. But the more we focus on community, the better the music grows.

Dr. Shreyas Patel: Yeah. Yeah.

Beth Philemon: You mentioned the comparison between the choral and orchestral community. And  it's funny, I've been in conversations with people in the last couple of weeks about this unfortunate kind of dichotomy between the two. And this person was a former executive director for a choral organization that provides choir singing for big choral orchestral works and you know, they were saying ‘In some ways, choir’s the redheaded stepchild to the classical music world’. Right, you know, even classical arts world to a certain extent, because there's orchestral music, there's chamber music, there's opera. And then looking beyond that, there's ballet and the theater. And then there's choir. And I sometimes forget that other people have that mindset because I'm so choir-oriented. But it's real. Would you say like, that's real?

Dr. Shreyas Patel: Yeah, we're just choir, you know? And you're starting to see these grassroots choirs now that are very specific genres. But it's still ‘just choir’. It's ‘just choir’. And we get this, and there's no equity on how choir runs compared to instrumentalists. Our instrument is our voice, and we have to practice, but you know, if we were to, I mean, I could talk about this for hours and hours, but in a nutshell, it we pay salaries to orchestra members to have symphony orchestras. I mean, like $70,000 a year salary, $40,000 a year somewhere, depending on your position. We don't have professional choirs that pay $40,000 to be in one place and perform on the regular. And even as a contract musician, you know, instrumentalists are notoriously paid more than choral members, because there's no union for choral artists and singers unless you are in opera, or you’re on Broadway. So, yeah, the choral person, and I am a staunch forester. I mean, that is my role. I am a choral guy. I love solo performing, and I do a lot of it. But man, if I can do choral professional stuff all-day long, that's my life. Yeah. And I should be able to make a career out of it. No, but it's just not. There's no equity in that. And I wish that would change. And I think what will help with that is this identification of these niches, kind of like what we're doing in the entrepreneurial world right now, is finding your ‘niche’, finding your quote-unquote ‘tribe’, and I hate that word, but I'm gonna use it anyways. You got to find that little sweet spot and now this is what you do. And this is what your reputation is, and then you can go somewhere with that. 

Beth Philemon: With your work in instrumental conducting, you’ve always been instrumental conducting, but in particular, within this fellowship internship that you've been in this past year with the Nashville Philharmonic, is that correct? What are some things that you think choral musicians can take from the instrumental world?

Dr. Shreyas Patel: Wow, okay. That's a fascinating viewpoint. And as a conductor, the choral conducting is incredibly different from instrumental conducting because the physical body is what they pay attention to. Much more than the baton, where we can be quite delegate. All of your body movements can be interpreted by those 80 instrumentalists in very different ways. Everything from breath to  the way you over-conduct, make your gestures big, and then they play broadly that way. So you have to be careful with your conducting gestures and body language. What singers can learn from instrumental? It's tracking up tempo, They pay attention to other instruments and the relationship to other instruments from one quarter of the room to the other. And that's a huge thing. You know, it's very hard to hear when you're an oboist in the middle of your section. And you have to hear the eight notes from the double basses in the cellos across the way, and so they find wonderful ways to track from section to section so that things stay together. And that's not easy to do in that environment. If you were to sit in the middle of the oboe section and go, ‘Where am I?’, because all you can hear is oboe. So they’re astute listeners I mean, they're just so good at listening. Their listening skills are incredible. I’m trying to think of what else they could learn from it. It's hard because it's so different. You don't see it as choristers, and I wonder if we should do this sometimes. If that, we should just have bass books and tenor books and have part-books, right. And I wonder if we would actually be better singers because of it, or worse. And if the orchestra had the full score to play from, because then they would understand relationships. Like, I think it's just very different because of the way they're designed. But part books, I think that would be a great experiment, like a nice doctoral study if anybody wants to do it out there in Choir Baton. What do you find in taking a regular score and making into a part book? And how do your singers perform and learn? Do they learn better? Or do they learn worse? And how do they interact with the music in a different way?

Beth Philemon: That's fascinating. I mean, it makes sense.

Dr. Shreyas Patel: You become a master of your part.

Beth Philemon: Right. So I did something a little bit similar with that this year, when the students worked on Seal Lullaby, and that's actually something that I'll do when I'm introducing a piece of music to a new singer, because the choral score is ridiculously overwhelming. You know, you really have to teach the tracking of systems before so they can truly understand how to read - read the score, so, but that would be a very interesting study. Yeah, that would be very interesting. I love it.

Dr. Shreyas Patel: Yeah. Yeah.

Beth Philemon: Well, I kind of want to close with a bit of a personal story that kind of ties back into, I think, what makes your journey so unique. It says a lot about your journey. And it also says a lot about you as a person. Would you mind opening up a little bit about being an immigrant here and how that has affected your life, and the story I'm referring to is the choir tour.

Dr. Shreyas Patel: Yeah. As an immigrant, you know, my father came here on a white or white card visa at the time, which was a work permit. But there were no opportunities for my family. So my brother, my mother and I came across, and we did a two-way flight and stayed one way. But we applied and went through the appropriate paperwork. And then our paperwork fell through, that company went defunct and filed bankruptcy. And so we were set in limbo, and what should have taken only three and a half, four years, took almost 13 and a half, to just get the green card. Well, for that whole time period, I was now locked into the United States. I could not get a ticket. I had a social security card. But I had to be so careful. If anybody found out that I was, at that point, an illegal immigrant, then that was it. I was out, you know, and who knows what the consequences would be, not only for me, but my entire family. And all that work, all that stuff that your parents have gone through, and your family has gone through to make this happen for a better life, truly for a better life. It would be for nothing, you know. And so that's very limiting, because you can't go to the colleges you want to go to, you can't go to the places you want to go to, you can't travel like you want to, you miss out on opportunities. 

And one of the pinnacle parts of our university experience was every three and a half or three years, the choir would do a tour to Europe at the time. And I remember, this was a European travel year. And we do all this preparation and all this work. And I was the head conductor, so I was doing a lot of the preparation. You make this incredible music and you want to perform it in these cathedrals, and spaces, and venues, and these concerts. And you're so excited because you're young and impressionable. Right, when you're in university and you're like, ‘This is so cool’, and you want that camaraderie with your peers. And then because of your situation, you don't get to go. And it was heartbreaking. And I remember, I thought, ‘I have to support my friends and my colleagues’. So I remember, I was asked to drive the choir to the airport. And I was like, ‘Oh my God, why am I doing this?’, but it broke my heart. It really did on the inside, and I just kind of, you know, I was always so happy and grateful that they were going, but I was left behind. Not by choice, but by circumstance. 

So I saw the choir off, and you know, immediately as I was, as I turned from the gate, and I was walking back to the car, I mean, I was just bawling. Because this was my world. This is my life. This is where I felt like I belonged. And those people that allowed me to feel comfortable and belong were going to do their thing without me, being their leader at that time. And it was so like, no. What do you do? And like, how do you, you know, we have so many immigrants that our school systems, and our world, in our nation, they need these opportunities to feel like they belong and express. They don't get them. And so yeah, it was beautiful - and I got to keep in touch with people while they were on tour in Tennessee pictures, and then people sent me stuff in the early days of the internet. And that is what it really was. It was a heartbreaking story, but at the same time, I was so happy for them. Because who couldn’t be?

Beth Philemon: Right? I mean, it's a heartbreaking story, but it's a reality. I think it says so much about you as a person, and the fact that you were able to still be so supportive and, I mean, just driving them to the airport in this. I just can't imagine the heart wrenching pain that you were in. But you're right, choir is an important place for everyone to feel a part of a community, and especially immigrants. And the reality is that sometimes our ‘quote unquote’ perfect choir world of being able to take these international trips, or other trips. There are harsh realities that come with that. Because it is real life.

Dr. Shreyas Patel: Yeah. And that, you know, I didn't - even if I was able to go, you know, to fork out that much money is a difficult thing for anybody. It's quite the investment. So what do we do to make sure that there's equity for everybody to be able to do those things? And we just have to be strategic, and if we're fundraising, we have to fundraise for, you know, an extended period of time and make it equitable, so that everybody's contributing evenly sponsoring et cetera. So it's logistics and brain work and, you know, good management and good planning and inspirational leadership.

Beth Philemon: Yeah, yeah. It's not easy. But I think it's also important, the more we talk about it, and the more we share ideas, and ultimately share stories like that, because that story that you just shared, I guarantee will give someone context to have pause for thought. Next time international trips, or any trip, is considered, because there, there are a lot of aspects to that that we can do a better job of thinking about, as a choir community. Yeah.

Dr. Shreyas Patel: Well, it goes back to what you and I had talked about several weeks ago when I came up to Raleigh. It's this concept of collaboration - our choral educator world is quite insular, because we are the only choir teacher or music teacher in our building, oftentimes, you know, one is instrumental and vocal. So you don't get to collaborate, and think, and process, and finding those communities outside of ACDA is very difficult because we're not in the same building, we're not in the same community. We're not in proximity to each other. But we also need to go explore, we need to go to different school districts that look different from ours, and see what they're doing, and learn from them. 

And that's why I spent that time with you coming up to Raleigh, and working with you, and working with your students, because it helped me understand what was lacking in my school district. And what I would love to take back to some of the educators in my school district say ‘Look, this is this is a wonderful way of doing this and we thought about it’, because we're stuck in a funk right now in my school district with certain education. But had I not gone outside of my state to go see that and really be a risk taker, but do something with collaboration in mind - I wasn't going out there to be competitive and say, ‘Well, I know more than you do’, or ‘You know more than I do’. It was just, I want to learn, let's be learners together. But let's not judge our learning processes. We got to figure out how our communities are. And I think we all innately know that, but we don't show that. Right.

Beth Philemon: Right. It's scary. It's scary at first and we haven't always seen that modeled. And so it's hard for us to act in something that we haven't seen modeled. It's just like representation, if you will. Right. And that's one of the beautiful things about Choir Baton, and why I'm so grateful to have this platform to share, and then so grateful for people like you to share it with, because we are beginning a new era, I do hope, of modeling and showing ‘This is how you fail, and this is our journey’. Our journey is not a straight cakewalk to where - it has many twists and turns and ultimately, to stories like yours where you do not have to be a music educator full-time to be a music educator. Or you can be a PA and a choir singer, or a science teacher and a choir singer.

Dr. Shreyas Patel: Yeah, yeah. And, you know, I do my homework and I prepare, and I study as best as I possibly can with the resources I have. But, you know, I conduct a lot of ensembles here in the city, and I fill in as a substitute conductor a lot, and I work with my church choir, and you find those opportunities if you do the legwork. bBut we get stuck in our little, passive, small world. And  we have to be active, and just do it, and try it. And like you said, ‘If you fail, you fail’. That's, you know, we'll pick ourselves back up, and the only way you can pick yourself up is with some assistance. It's much easier if you got somebody to help you with it. And that's what we have to do as music educators, and people who are passionate about professional choral performance, and amateur choral performance, and community choral performance. It's time to be done. And I think people are looking for that. I hear a lot of stories about well, ‘I did this in high school and I loved it in college, but this nowhere to do it now’, and ‘It's really hard in my schedule’. But we also have to remember and empower people that if we put things on our schedule, we can take things off of our schedule. And I'm horribly bad at doing that.

But it can be done.

Beth Philemon: Well, and as choir directors, how are we creating authentic, and real, and connecting experiences for community choirs that people want to be a part of? And I think that looks like different choir rehearsals than we've always been accustomed to. Maybe it's taking the first 15 minutes of rehearsal and talking, or the midway through, or something like that to really engage people with the community so that we can be a part of the music better together.

Dr. Shreyas Patel: Your students are so lucky to have you as an instructor because I think you nailed it right there. You create opportunities: for some context for our listeners, and part of the time, I had asked Beth to come up to Raliegh and see her after maybe seven or eight years since I'd seen you I think. Well, I'm just gonna come up there, and visit, and spend the weekend, and learn from you. And so, I wanted to help coach, but also learn, and just share ideas. You provide this wonderful platform to your students where they got to hear from my perspective, and be led from my perspective. And then you would interject with some of the educational aspects of the same thing. I was saying in a professional manner, to what makes sense as an amicable ‘quote unquote’ amateur professional singer. Right. And then you were saying it from an educator’s perspective, same exact thing. And now they're going, ‘Oh, that makes sense’. And then we had that wonderful time, sitting on your giant bouncy balls, and allowing your students to hear stories from people who are passionate about singing. Right, so bring those people in, bring in professionals. I've Skyped in with several choirs to talk about the’ What does it take to be a professional choral singer?’. And my friend, Sarah Moyer, who's a wonderful soprano out in Boston, she does a lot of that kind of stuff. But we have lots of friends, I mean, there are so many professional choir singers who sing and seraphic fire, and Conspirare, and all over the nation who can provide wonderful stories, and wonderful feedback that would help students, and people who are just interested to be better at what they want to do. And that's the stuff. What you're doing in your environment and through Choir Baton, as well, is really fine. And I commend you for it, it's such a great practice.

Beth Philemon: You're saying, it's just exciting. Well, I briefly, and just to wrap up here, it stemmed from being in high school, and realizing there's a shift in our culture, if we're not careful of fear of singing, and music education. And so, one of my catchphrases that I say a lot is ‘More people singing’. We just have to have more people singing. If we're not careful, this art form is going to become more and more elitist. And ultimately, fewer and fewer people are going to participate. And so the more we can begin to share our life stories, the more other people can say, ‘Oh, well, I can relate to that life story, and they're a choir singer. I can be in a choir too’.

Well Shreyas, it has always a pleasure talking with you. Thank you so, so much for being a guest on the Choir Baton. You've hosted a mini-takeover over Easter, and we'll have you host another takeover in the near future, but if someone wants to get in touch with you, what is the best way, either via email and or social media, that someone could reach out?

Dr. Shreyas Patel: Yeah, social media is a great way. I'm on Instagram at @ssp143. You can find me on Facebook. You can find me on Twitter at @britindiamerican. And if you want to direct message Beth Philemon, she can get you in contact with me anytime, I'm happy to have conversations, and chat, and learn from you. I'm happy to offer my thoughts. Whether they're helpful or not, will be up to whoever's listening, I guess.

Beth Philemon: Yeah, again, I think we briefly touched on this, but the fact that there's not a ton of Indian representation within our choral music world, as well. And I think your story, and your story of immigration, and your story to fight these cultural expectations, and love for your family, but then also love for your music, as well - I think would speak to a lot of people, but particularly those from the Indian culture.

Dr. Shreyas Patel: Yeah, Indian, East Asian cultures. We have to not always force them into becoming academics. Let them be musicians. Yeah.

Beth Philemon: Oh, friends, I so hope that you enjoyed listening to this conversation and interview with Shreyas as much as I did. I just value Shreyas’ story so much on so many different levels. It really speaks to me, and that no matter what kind of career path or journey that we decide to take, at times feel like we need to take because of cultural and familial expectations, that music, and especially choir singing, can always be a part of our lives. Special thanks to Shreyas for recording this episode with me. And again, you can find us online, on Instagram, Facebook, and connect with him there and see all the wonderful things that he's doing. 

I so hope that you enjoyed this episode and the other episodes of the Choir Baton podcast. If you have not done so already, I would greatly appreciate you taking the time to send us a five star review on iTunes. And leave us a written review of what you're most enjoying about the podcast right now. But honestly, more than that, more than the liking or the stars and the reviews, the best thing that you can do to honor the work that we're trying to do here with Choir Baton is to share it with your community. Maybe it's sharing it with a fellow choir director or choir singer. But even more than that, consider sharing it with someone that has talked about being in a choir before, but doesn't really know where to start, or why to start. I am continually convinced that in order for choir singing to continue to grow and flourish in the 21st century, we must focus on how we can get ‘more people singing’, and by you sharing the work of Choir Baton, you are participating within that venture. Thanks again for listening and until next time, keep singing.