Choir Baton Podcast Episode 12. Kate Foiles of @whathappensinchoir on #TeachersofInstagram and the realities of preparing your choir for a state music educator's conference performance

Summer of 2018 I stumbled upon @whathappensinchoir on Instagram through a hashtag search of #choirdirectors. Unbeknownst to me, Kate (@whathappensinchoir) had just started this account and was not only chronicalling her choir teaching experiences but was also preparing her middle school choir for their fall performance at the Virgina State Music Educator's Conference. We bonded through this shared experience of preparing students to perform for an audience of the most discerning concert goers- our music education peers. As the days approached her choir's performance, the weather took a grim turn and snow began to fall. The Instagram choral community watched in horror as Kate went through the ups and downs of not knowing if her choir would actually get to perform. To everyone's dismay, the school district cancelled school - haulting any plans for the students to perform their carefully selected, learned, and rehearsed repertoire. In this episode Kate shares with us what that experience was like and how she and her students are continuing to work through the disappointment. Her candor and willingness to share about this experience reveals a teacher deeply passionate about the work she does for her students and the rawness and reality of disappointment. 

If you are not following Kate on IG (Instagram), be sure to do so. She is building a community of music educators passionate about music learning and integrating technology into the middle school choral experience. We discuss how influential the social media community has been to our teaching and recap the story of how we finally met in person at this year's National ACDA Convention. 

Not sure if social media is your thing? This interview will inspire you to use the internet to find friends and fellowship through platforms such as Instagram.

Kate Foiles | @whathappensinchoir

Choir Baton Host: Beth Philemon @bethphilemon | www.bethphilemon.com

Visit Choir Baton Online: @choirbaton | www.choirbaton.com

Choir Baton Theme Song by Scott Holmes

Kate Foiles: Cause they also were so hurt-- I'm also texting my accompanist, texting my principal, emailing all the parents being like, okay, so it's canceled but we might do this or we might have a Skype performance or we might be going on a different day, is your kid on free on Saturday, like this crazy massive chain of reply all emails happening with parents and they're telling me that their kids are crying and their kids are so sad and that was so hard for me too because they're upset but when you hear that they're so invested in it too, that's even harder for me because I know how, you know, they might not show it in class because of that “not wanting to look too invested in choir thing”, but somewhere inside of them they’re still invested in it. 

Beth Philemon: Welcome to the Choir Baton, a podcast designed to engage with people and stories, ideas and inspirations stemming from choir. No other art form, no sport, no hobby, no business requires a group of people to execute a communal goal with just their voices. Join me, your host Beth Philemon, as I interview guests who are singers, teacher conductors, instrumentalists, and community members. Together, we'll ask questions, seek understanding and share insight from our experiences in life and in choir.

I am so honored and excited to have one of my newest and dearest friends on the podcast with us today. Kate Foiles, right? This is the problem with being internet friends. I mean, we are real life friends now, but I don't usually hear your last name spoken. I can spell it like a champ.

Kate Foiles: We're not really sure how to say anybody's names. We can say your usernames just fine!

Beth Philemon: So Kate Foiles, also known as @whathappensinchoir, is that PC to say the @ in front of it?

Kate Foiles: I don't know. I think it’s fine!

Beth Philemon: Okay, it works. So Kate and I became friends via Instagram last summer. And I think I found her because I was just doing a hashtag search for choir teacher hashtags and choir and things like that. And if you didn't know that you could do that on Instagram, you can. And I ran across her and, aside from her ridiculously cute icon of “What Happens in Choir” and this beautiful little script thing, which I have questions about. Yeah, I just started following her and she was nerdy like me, loving talking about all the things choir and what was going on. And then I think we really bonded over the fact we were both getting choirs ready to perform at our state Music Educators conference.

Kate Foiles: Yeah, so I just started my teacher Instagram at the beginning of last summer. So I was looking for people to follow. And when I found your account, we connected, I saw you had a highlight for NCMEA. And I was like, oh, cool. So I looked at it and it was all recent stuff. So it wasn't like you'd done it last year, you were working on it right now. So I think I sent you a message or something or commented, but I hadn't really reached out to a lot of people on teacher Instagram, because I was like, oh, I don't know how to connect with these people or anything. So I sent you a message and we just started talking from there.

Beth Philemon: The rest is history. I think we have an amazing story of our friendship down to the day that we first met, but we'll get to all of that and I'm actually really excited for this part of the interview because a lot of the stuff I don't know, which is... who are you? [Beth and Kate Laughing] Where are you? Who are you really? But why choir? How did you get into choir? What's your background? Yeah, tell us all the things. 

Kate Foiles: I started out in church choir, which I think is how a lot of people start out. I mean, not teaching church choir, but singing in church choir, as a kid. I come from a military family, so we would move a lot and we would always find a church when we first moved somewhere. And then I would always sing in the church choir because my mom is a singer. She sings in church choirs still, and my dad plays the trumpet and he was in band in high school and everything. So I always sang in church choir when I was little, I sang in school choir when they had school choir when I was in high school. And I just really loved singing. But I didn't decide I wanted to be a choir director until my senior year of college, which was too late for me to join the ed school. And I decided that because I went on a trip with my church to Kenya and I ended up doing a lot of the worship leading for some of the youth group sessions. And so I really liked that. And I also did that elementary ed stuff for my senior project. So you either had to do a recital in the School of Music or have some sort of project so I worked with a local school to get them ready for a spring concert and that was my spring project.

Beth Philemon: So what was your major then?

Kate Foiles: I just have a BA in Music, Bachelor of Arts, and then I also have a BA in Psychology so I was a double major because I wanted to be a psychologist. And then I changed to wanting to be a music teacher.

Beth Philemon: That's-- see, I'm so excited! Well, basically being a music teacher is like being a psychologist. 

Kate Foiles: It's very helpful to have both skills.

Beth Philemon: Yeah.

Kate Foiles: Especially with middle school.

Beth Philemon: Ah, heavens bless. But that's a huge shift to decide, in our American way of thinking, to be in a senior year of college. You know, most people I feel like switch after, that must have-- was that a hard decision to decide that?

Kate Foiles: I always had the music-- I was taking all the music classes because I find music interesting. I took AP music theory in high school. I was in music theory classes, and I was in four ensembles, singing ensembles in choir. And then I was also taking psychology classes. So music was my minor for a while, and then I moved it to my major because I was like, if I'm spending all this time taking all these classes, I might as well just get the double degree out of it. So I just added on music as a major in my senior year, and I decided to start looking at grad programs because I knew I wasn't going to be able to get everything I needed to teach in my undergrad.

Beth Philemon: And you were at William and Mary for undergrad?

Kate Foiles: Yeah, I went to William and Mary for undergrad. So then I took a year off after William and Mary because I couldn't get it together to get my grad program applied to, take the GRE and all that stuff. And I ended up at University of South Carolina for my Masters of Arts in Teaching with a focus in choral music ed from preK to 12. So theoretically, I was licensed for any of that. But I really wanted to do Elementary, and my practicum and my internship in grad school, I taught baby music, I taught zero to five at a daycare. And then when I did my student teaching, I student taught and we did a split semester, so I did elementary and middle school, and I really liked both of those placements just fine.

I didn't think I was going to be enjoying the middle school or high school placement but I really liked it. But I still wanted to do elementary when I left. And then I didn't get any jobs until July. So I got a call from a middle school and I just took it because I was afraid I wasn't going to get anything else. I took it sight unseen in a town I'd never been to, in a school I'd never looked at that was 150 students total in the sixth grade Middle School in a town that has 900 people in South Carolina. It was crazy. And I moved there by myself.

Beth Philemon: So yeah, you weren't married at that point, right?

Kate Foiles: Correct. So my now-husband and I went to undergrad and grad school together. He moved up to Virginia Tech to work there right out of grad school. And then I stayed in South Carolina because I had a South Carolina teaching license and I had connections in the state in terms of getting a job so I stayed there for a year.

Beth Philemon: Wow. Okay, so I can only imagine-- so backtrack to grad school. Why South Carolina? Were there any specifics? And I honestly don't know of anyone else that's done a Masters of Arts in Teaching with a choral emphasis, that's a unique setup I feel like.

Kate Foiles: There were two people in my program at South Carolina. So it wasn't like there were a ton of people taking this degree program. The reason I picked South Carolina is because I hadn't student taught in undergrad, so I needed somewhere that was going to give me my master's, a teaching license, and let me student teach, all within the same two year program. So South Carolina had that and there were only four schools I applied to. And they also said they would get it done in a reasonable amount of time. Because one school said it was going to take like, four or five years and I was not trying to do that. And when I interviewed I really liked the professors that I was going to be working with. I worked closely with Dr. Wendy Valerio and I worked with Dr. Alicia Walker, who's now the head of choral activities down there. And they were awesome to work with. So that's why I picked South Carolina. And it helped that they had a program for my now-family to attend the same school, in something different.

Beth Philemon: Just out of sheer nosiness, I know what he does now, what was his major?

Kate Foiles: He has a Master's in Higher Ed. He actually has a Master's of Education in Higher Ed with a student affairs focus. 

Beth Philemon: Okay, interesting. So similar, but very different also.

Kate Foiles: Yeah. So we still had classes in the ed school together, but we've never had the same classes. 

Beth Philemon: Right. So how was that middle school experience in rural South Carolina?

Kate Foiles: It was really interesting. It was a Magnet School for the Arts. So all the kids had to audition to get in and they had to audition for either art, band, choir, or dance. And those are the programs that we had. So I had two choirs, I had a show choir and I had a traditional choir. And then I also taught in the local elementary school one period a day to second graders or third graders, depending on the day of the week. So I was also the elementary music teacher there. Which leads a whole other conversation about why only second and third grade were getting music at that school.

Beth Philemon: Oh, there was not another music teacher?

Kate Foiles: No, it was just me teaching second or third grade music at that school. So I would drive down there and teach to them and then I would drive back and teach, I had one random elective and then I had my two choirs, and it was a really easy school day. But it was-- 

Beth Philemon: That was easy? It sounds insane!

Kate Foiles: I mean, it was insane with the span of teaching I had to do but I only taught four classes in a school day. That was easy. It was a lot of sitting. So yeah, I had a show choir and a regular choir. I'd never done show choir, the kids didn't really read music. They had all auditioned to get in and they all had really nice voices. But they weren't necessarily reading music at the skill level where I was hoping they would. And it was a good first program to start out at, it was definitely a big learning curve for me. That's all I really can say about it at this point.

Beth Philemon: Yeah. So then you decide, I'm gonna move back up to Virginia. 

Kate Foiles: Yeah, I pretty much decided I was only-- I mean since it wasn't a magnificent, amazing programming workout for the rest of my life, I pretty much decided I was going to come back up to Virginia after my first year and teach up here. So I had my eye looking at postings in the area and the middle school that I currently work at popped up at like 5pm. I applied by midnight that night, and that was the only job I applied for. And the only job I interviewed for up here and I got it, which was miraculous because it's so close to Virginia Tech where my husband works and it's such a great program that I just feel very fortunate to have gotten that job so easily. It just felt like it fell into my lap. Which was cool.

Beth Philemon: Yeah. And you've been there now three years?

Kate Foiles: Four years. This is my fourth year there. 

Beth Philemon: Okay, awesome. So tell me a little bit about the setup of your program.

Kate Foiles: So, my program at the school that I'm currently at, I have a sixth grade choir. And then I have a seventh and eighth grade boys choir, and I have a seventh and eighth grade girls choir and then I have a seventh and eighth grade audition girls choir.

Beth Philemon: You have them for the whole year?

Kate Foiles: Yes, I have them every day for the whole year for like 15 minutes a day. 

Beth Philemon: Awesome. Now, before we jump into talking about Instagram, too, I do want to say, from Instagram, I've seen the amazing graphics even that you use in your classroom, your level of organization. And I know Flipgrid-- I was actually-- I don't know how, maybe stalking through old stories of yours recently on saved highlights, and I didn't realize that you only started using Flipgrid recently, this past school year. But I'm just so impressed by the look of everything that you're doing in your program, how did that come to be? You know what I mean by that? 

Kate Foiles: I do. Yeah, I really like technology which is my first caveat to this whole thing. I really like technology and if I can use it, I'm going to use it. So it almost always is going to make things easier to incorporate that level of technology in the classroom in the long run. At the beginning, it's a lot more work. So like, making all of my warm ups and rhythm practicing and sight reading into a cohesive PowerPoint is a lot of work for me. But in the long run, I don't take things home to grade anymore. Because I'm doing all of it on devices. Now we are one-to-one with devices. So that's a privilege that not everyone has. That kind of changes the game here, but I don't take stuff home to grade it. I don't have to do any of that.

I also am a huge procrastinator and one of my favorite procrastination techniques is being creative and making something that seems like it's relevant to the task at hand but often is totally unnecessary, like making it look nice or like, oh, I could use this old worksheet that I have that’s just type basic, whatever on Microsoft Word or I could redo it so it sticks with my font scheme or some stupid stuff like that. So that's typically how I procrastinate and it's just gone from there. I also really like making stuff on computers, like I'm not a graphic designer or whatever. But I really like doing that, designing stuff on the computer.

Beth Philemon: What programs do you use?

Kate Foiles: I use my Mac and I use Keynote exclusively, and then I just export stuff as a PDF. I feel like it's easier to get the layout of text where I want to. And if you can-- your students are listening, if you can export things as PDF it makes everything a lot more helpful.

Beth Philemon: What's a PDF?? She's joking because I recently discovered my high school students, and these are not your average high school students, I mean, I teach all gamuts of high school students, but these are my ridiculously high achieving NHS level students that were like, what do you mean export as a PDF? What's a PDF? How's it different? And I was blown away. Yeah, so that's where that joke comes in. 

Well, okay, so then I think, quite honestly, we're a visual society. And it adds credibility to your program because we are looking for things that look professional.

Kate Foiles: Yeah, that's the other part of it. I like that everything seems cohesive. My students notice that things are cohesive. And I want my classroom and all the materials I give my students to be-- I mean, it's almost predictable, like if they know what everything's gonna look like and they know where things are organized and they know how everything's going to be organized on their warm up slider in the classroom it's easier for them, it's a more welcoming environment for them so I try and keep it consistent for that reason too.

Beth Philemon: And this has, I'm assuming, all been a process for you, right? You didn't have this going when you walked in there?

Kate Foiles: No, I didn't walk in my second year teaching to this room and redo everything super nice and pick out all the fonts I was going to use and have a color scheme. This is a yearly process of adding more and more stuff. And it used to be a lot of spending my own money to do all of this. And I've really backed off of that. I don't know if it's because I've bought enough stuff that I don't feel like I need to get anymore but I used to spend a lot of money on my classroom, just getting things that I thought were helpful or helpful to organize or whatever and I haven't been doing that as much lately.

But I bought a lot on Teachers Pay Teachers, that's where a lot of my classroom stuff comes from. It's all decorated and nice and organized, but then there's just been a lot of trial and error, like, cleaning out the closet after a teacher had been teaching there for 25 years. I found floppy disks in 2016. But then finding a system so that I wasn't going to keep garbage that wasn't necessary, because I don't want to run out of space in the classroom.

Beth Philemon: I feel you on that cleaning stuff out. I'm almost done cleaning out my current classroom from the previous 30 years of teaching instruction. So then, your love of technology, your love of design-- what pushed you to do a teacher Instagram in the first place?

Kate Foiles: I was following. So I started following a bunch of teachers, not necessarily choir teachers, but in a “how can I make my classroom look nice” kind of way, I was following a bunch of teachers on Instagram on my personal account, which is private. Because middle school... and I was sending messages but I found that I couldn't really interact with people that well because they would go onto my page and they wouldn't see anything about me. And so you can't form a connection with anybody that way or you can't as easily. So I decided I was going to just start a teacher account so that I could interact with pages and so that I could post any random teacher stuff that I thought was helpful. And then I started doing stories when I would come into my classroom over the summer or stories about what we were doing in the classroom, during the school year, just stuff that I was seeing other people do on their Instagrams and I started incorporating that into mine. And it was just easy and natural for me to do that. I don't know what it is about me, but I really, I've enjoyed it a lot. 

And I found a lot of choir directors and I think while I was talking, I’m a verbal processor, I was thinking about how I used to spend a lot of money on my classroom. And I used to be following a lot of teachers on Instagram because of what their visual aesthetic looked like. And now I am following choir directors and people who do the same thing as I do. And I'm not as focused on that aspect. Like, I'm not putting up a bunch of bulletin boards this year. I haven't done a-- well I put up one very good bulletin board and then nothing else.

Beth Philemon: It was amazing. Is this the Black History Month one?

Kate Foiles: Yeah, it's in my classroom now because they needed it to come down so they could put something else up, but it's gonna be in my classroom forever. And I've just not been as focused on decor and making everything all showy, I've just been focused on the content I’m giving my students now which I think says a lot about the people that I have found on the choir Instagram. Like offshoot of everything. 

Beth Philemon: Yeah. How did you come up with @whathappensinchoir?

Kate Foiles: I was trying to come up with a punny, witty name or something fun that didn't have my name in the handle because I didn't really want my students to find me but they have anyway because they’re magicians when it comes to social media, but I was trying to think of something that would be interesting to have as a username. And I was thinking of “what happens in choir stays in choir” which is where that name actually came from. But then I thought it was funny because it actually isn't staying in choir, I'm putting all of it on the internet. So it just kind of happened. And then people started following me and they know the username now. So this is who we are.

Beth Philemon: Because what’s really fun is when we're at national conventions and people will pass and say, “are you what happens in choir”? or they know-- 

Kate Foiles: It happened twice. And it was very weird to me. Like very-- I didn't know how to respond. Like, yes I am, but gotta not think about that. It's just so strange. But it was awesome too to know that people are watching and seeing what we're doing and all that. Because sometimes people's faces blur together, you know, sometimes there are people that you enjoy really desperately, watching their stories and seeing what they're doing and you visit their page specifically to see if there's anything new. So I just think it's cool to have that sort of impact.

Beth Philemon: It's a game changer. I mean, it is a game changer.

Kate Foiles: Yeah. And I mean, there's been so many times when you've done something, or I've done something or someone else who we all know has done something and I've been like, that's cool and my lesson for tomorrow is not cool. So I'm going to do that for half of my class period. And the kids like it and it reinforces the concept. I think that Ashton Humphries did that rhythm Tic Tac Toe thing before I did it and so then I brought that into my classroom and it was super easy to set up and the kids liked it, I was able to pinpoint so many problems they were having with rhythms, like not counting themselves in a steady beat or not keeping a steady beat when no one else is with them, doing it independently, but they also weren't aware that I'm walking around individually assessing them because they're just worried about the candy prize at the end of the rainbow or whatever.

Beth Philemon: Absolutely. And then, what's also fun is you see someone do it and then it just even sparks conversations about what other people are doing, like this conversation or other conversations. I've been so impressed with the choral Instagram community and intentionally sought to make sure that we continue to keep it as a place of positivity, we avoid the comparison game. Because that is hard and it could be easy to go that route and I know sometimes, you know, I talked about it recently on a podcast. Did you see the Stingray Chorus? I can't remember her first name.

Kate Foiles: Annabel. 

Beth Philemon: Yeah, well, when Annabel did that amazing map of where all the different choirs--

Kate Foiles: So cool! And I also rethought a lot of stuff that I was doing in that moment. I was like, where are all my choirs? So Annabel set up this huge map on her wall, shout out to Annabel, and posted a thumbtack where each of the songs came from on the map that they were working on in their choir and she was like, oh yeah, we've got some holes here and there but like overall-- and I was like dang, overall you did really well. And I was like, where are all my pieces from? Like, why don't I think about that? And then it makes it so much easier, yes, it was hard work, again, yes, it was hard work for her to set up that system. But now it makes it so much easier for her to be like, oh, am I putting another push pin in the same area of the map? Or are we finding somewhere else to look? So just stuff like that is really cool to make me think about, why are you doing that? Should I be doing that? Like that kind of idea that has come so much out of being on Instagram.

Beth Philemon: And then we get to meet each other in real life.

Kate Foiles: I mean, I just hung out with Annabel, like, two weekends ago, at Virginia All-State Choir.

Beth Philemon: In Richmond, and I was in Richmond the weekend before. I know I just missed you all. But I mean, would you have possibly even known Annabel or maybe you did know her before...

Kate Foiles: I didn't know her, there is definitely a possibility I would have met her. I mean, she's running Virginia All State Choir next year, so I definitely would have met her. But I know my mom teaches in Fairfax County, which is up near where she teaches. And I also know a couple choir directors who teach up there because you know, you just meet people in your state who teach choir. And so I probably would have met her but I don't think we would have been friends but we hung out all of All-States and got coffee and helped out with the directors and everything and it was really cool.

Beth Philemon: So if someone's listening to this and being like, okay, I'm finally ready to engage more actively in choir on Instagram, whether it's through their own personal account like me, because I'm too lazy to make a separate one and I can't keep them both separate and I just said, whatever, I'm just doing it all as one. Or they want to do what you've done and create two separate ones, which when I finally got to follow @katefoiles on Instagram I felt like we had reached a new level of friendship. 

Kate Foiles: I've only done that with like three people from teacher Instagram. It's been really nice.

Beth Philemon: Well, I have a million thoughts about that too, because then it can be hard like, who do you follow? You don't want to offend someone, but also being mindful about certain things. What tips do you have for someone that's like, okay, I have been watching @whathappensinchoir through my personal account. I want to begin to post more or I want to create my own teacher choir Instagram. Do you have any tips or thoughts for someone jumping into this?

Kate Foiles: The first thing I did was just watch, like lurk on the outskirts and watch everything that's going on. And that just gave me a lot of ideas on its own. But I find it so much easier to make stories, Instagram Stories, than I do to make a post. Because I feel like, and I've talked about this with my students about different aspects of this, but with a post, you can see all the statistics and they are right there in front of you like this is how many likes you have, and this is how many comments you have and whatever, whatever. And it's right there to see, and even if I'm a 29 year old woman, I'm still going-- like we were all raised in some part of this social media revolution. I'm going to look and see how many likes or how many comments I have. And even if I tried to be mature about it and say I don't care, some part of me cares. But with these stories, like yes, there's a tiny number at the bottom, this is how many people watched it, but I don't notice that as much and I don't care.

Beth Philemon: And no one else can see it.

Kate Foiles: That’s a good point, no one else can see that. So I do a lot more posting on my stories because I don't feel like it has to be as curated. I feel like there's a lot of focus in influencer Instagram realm about making it curated and always using the same filter or posting once or twice a day or making sure that your color scheme matches and I don't have time to do that, like, I have time to redo worksheets for my students, I don't have time to-- because that's gonna actually matter for my students. I don't have time to make sure my color scheme matches and if you do, I'm not saying that you're a bad teacher and a bad person in any respect, power to you, but I just don't have that energy in my body. 

So I did a lot of stories before I posted a lot and I still don't post individual posts all that often. But I find it easier to give an accurate, messy look into the classroom if I'm doing stories. And I don't have to plan it and take like 700 photos to find the best one or whatever. Now, do I still do that? Yes. But once I got over talking to my phone in my classroom when I'm by myself, or sometimes when I'm not by myself, that was the easiest way for me to get my point across was to talk on stories. And that also is low pressure, because if no one watches it, no one watches it. And if no one likes it, you don't have to really face that part of the whole deal. 

But also when I am on Instagram, I watch way more stories than I scroll through the feed. That's just the way that I'm consuming it at this point. And I used to think Instagram Stories are silly, but now I pretty much just watch stories and then sometimes I will scroll for a little while but it's so much easier for me to see what people are doing that way. It's such a more accurate look of what's happening. I'm not making sure that I'm taking the perfect picture to put in the feed and thinking of the perfect caption. A lot of times I'm stumbling over my words or dropping something, someone walks in the classroom, like, my music is too loud in the background, whatever. 

But I feel like that is so much healthier to see, especially for new teachers or people who are just coming into teacher Instagram. It's not all pretty. It doesn't all sound nice when you sing through it. It's not all nice organization. Sometimes my desk is a crazy mess and I'm not necessarily-- Yes, we all post those, “it's not perfect” posts on our feed where things are a mess, but like you still cleaned up the mess to make it look messier or not quite as terrible. This is, I think, a lot more real than the posts, but I do still post actual posts. 

And I also think it's good because on the stories I don't show a lot of my students just because I worry about privacy stuff, because I have middle schoolers and they're too young to kind of sign in to that. But it's easier for me to talk about what I'm doing, and show the actual-- behind why I'm teaching this thing. And that goes back to what we talked about earlier, that can spur conversations about should I be doing that in my classroom or what is that warm up that you're doing or whatever. And it also cuts a lot of that comparison. I was trying to think when we were talking about comparing yourself to other people, I will compare myself-- I don't usually compare myself to other choirs listening to them singing through Instagram. If I see posts, I will watch them and listen to them be like, oh, that's great. But I feel myself through Instagram comparing myself to the other teachers, which I think is healthier, because I can't force my kids to sound a certain way, like you have the kids you're given. And if you have five great years in a row with really, really talented students, you have five great years in a row of talented students. But if you get a bad class or two in a row that you're having a hard time with, or they're having a hard time or you or your numbers are low, like, that's not your fault. And I think that is what's so challenging about this. We don't see that, we just see the end result. And Instagram lets us see everything that happened before that product. 

Beth Philemon: Process over product. 

Kate Foiles: Yeah, right. That's what you were cataloging all your NCMEA stuff for was to show the process and then I started doing that for myself as well. And for a verbal processor like me, it also is helpful for me to talk through, like, oh, they are literally 13 years old, I can't expect them to get this four part harmony in one rehearsal, you know, that's not a reasonable thing for me. So I think that I would rather compare myself to a director and see what they are doing as a teacher, regardless of their outcome with the students.

Beth Philemon: Right, it makes perfect sense. And I think that's so healthy, I mean, it really is because we are going to compare ourselves to a certain extent, but I'm also so impressed with just your mindset of realism. I feel like you're a very realistic person, but that feeds into your choirs of saying, you know, how they sound at so many times we think that it's about us or because of us or something we did do or something we didn't do, when in reality, we only have our own circle of control within that and forgetting that there's so many other aspects that really inhabit what the music is all about.

Kate Foiles: Right, like, I come to school, and I may have gotten less sleep than usual, my alarm didn't go off and I didn't eat breakfast or whatever, and coffee didn't get made. And I get there and the students see that I'm in the classroom, that's what they get. And there's all of that behind me, all of that stuff that happened to me in the morning that impacts how I am feeling, but they just see that I'm there. And same with them. Like, they may have been traveling all night, or they may have just broken up with their boyfriend or whatever, and they have all that other stuff going on. And sometimes it's the same thing as working with three classes in a row and it doesn't work with the fourth class, that's not me. That's obviously not me. You know, if it worked once and it doesn't work a second time that's not a problem with the solution it's a problem with what other elements are going on here. So, especially in middle school, it's like a grab bag, each kid could just walk through the door and grab a random feeling out of a bag and be like, here's what I feel today. And it's just-- I have to deal with that, you pick up the chips where they lie, or whatever the saying is.

I have to meet them where they are is the point of the story here. And if sometimes that means that we talk for 15 minutes about somebody's soccer team, or so and so's friend who's now dating her crush, or if we talk about how this kid did poorly on their test, and so did everyone else who took the test and is that fair, like if I need to spend 10 minutes talking about that, so that I can have the other 40 minutes of my rehearsal, I'm going to do that. I'm not gonna spend 50 minutes trying to shush this conversation. I don't know, it's just, it's always something different. And I feel like I can produce-- I mean, I'm not producing it-- I feel like the students produce better music when we have a relationship between the students and I. And so they know that they're going to come in, if they come in upset that I'm going to ask them what's wrong, and I'm not going to just make them sit down and shut up, then we'll get through that conversation and then they'll give me some work. And if their best today is not awesome than their best tomorrow might be better. But it's just, it's all so much more complicated than just singing the notes on the page. It's always gonna be more complicated than that.

Beth Philemon: Well, and you are the queen of adaptability. Case in point being this past fall. So as we mentioned, our friendship was strengthened with our journeys to perform at the state Music Educators conference and what not a lot of people know is that to sing at a state Music Educators conference, first off, there's the mindset of like, okay, I'm gonna do this, that as a director, you have to even get there. And then there's application. There is, not just submitting recordings, but making, finding, being willing to submit recordings. We have proposed repertoire, do you all as well?

Kate Foiles: We don't.

Beth Philemon: Okay, now I didn't follow strictly my proposed repertoire, but I still had to submit proposed repertoire and--

Kate Foiles: I feel like that would have been very helpful for me to have to submit proposed repertoire.

Beth Philemon: I don't know if mine, because I ended up changing half of it, but I guess it was helpful. And then you submit, then you are either approved or not approved to sing at a state Music Educators conference. So that is basically-- well what it sounds like-- it is the state Music Educators conference, but it's also potentially one of your harshest or most-- I shouldn't say harshest, potentially not-- most discerning crowds of audience members that are going to be hearing everything more than just your typical audience. So there's a lot of pressure that we put on ourselves, I put on myself, and I think you did too, because it's not that it has to be perfect, but you want it to be because you know it'd be appreciated.

Kate Foiles: And it's also almost, well, not always, but quite often a once in a lifetime thing. So I actually applied for mine on a whim because my band colleague was applying, and he said you should try and apply for your choir, and I was like, I don't even have four good recordings or whatever. And I just found, I mean, I didn't make recordings, I had-- we had our assessment stuff recorded and I have some stuff on YouTube. And I just ripped the audio off of that, honestly, and then I got in and I was just surprised by it. I just didn't think it was gonna happen. And it did. So it just kind of, again, fell into my lap.

But then, I was like, okay, well, what do I do with this? You know, he, my band colleague, had gone once or twice before with his band. So he was like, oh, this is such a big thing, hyping the whole thing up as if I'm not neurotic and stressed out enough most of the time. And I'm trying to communicate the importance to my students and trying to pick all the music over the summer and getting all of this stuff together. But like you said, it's the most discerning audience that I'll ever have my students perform in front of, and they're 12, 13, 14 years old and they could give me an excellent performance one day and then an okay one the other day and who knows what it's gonna be. 

So it was obviously extraordinarily stressful. Just the whole preparation process and pushing the kids. However, that group is excellent now, and is learning music very quickly. So I can definitely see that they've grown through the process of that. But we also got to learn a lot about what happens when you face problems or face, I guess adversity is the right word. Because our performance as you're alluding to got snowed out in November, like it doesn't snow in November really in Virginia. There was a random ice storm the day of the performance. And we had no school, we couldn't drive up there because it's up in the mountains. So I'm like, what are my contingency plans here? I was trying to switch time slots with people, I was trying to get us to perform on Skype from our school into the conference, and none of it panned out. So we just had to not do it. Which was crazy. 

It’s totally crazy to do all of it and then nothing afterwards. We did a Facebook Live or an Instagram Live right after. The next day we had school, came in and did a Facebook Live Concert for people watching on Instagram. And I know some people who watched it, which is cool. And the kids had done a preview concert for their parents a couple nights before we went. I mean, that was it. Like there's no recording. There's no videos, there's no-- I have a box of programs in my classroom so I don't know--

Beth Philemon: And they're beautiful!

Kate Foiles: And they were expensive. 

Beth Philemon: And they're banging, like I saw her programs that she had done two weeks in advance of this. And they're beautiful.

Kate Foiles: We did a photo shoot. Yeah, the whole shebang. I had kids write program notes. So then we came back and it was about to be Thanksgiving break. So we come back and I'm like, okay, let's move on. Let's try and learn stuff for the Winter concert. So they learned three pieces in two and a half weeks for the Winter concert. And then, the Winter concert’s on a Thursday, we get a big snowstorm the previous weekend and Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday of school that week got snowed out, so we missed our after school rehearsal, any logistical rehearsals. Our concert was at the high school. So the kids had never been on stage there, had no idea how to get on and off the stage. They were stressed out, there's nowhere for the kids to sit. So my Winter concert was also a mild disaster. I mean, everything sounded nice, but other than that, everything was total chaos. 

So it just was this whole month period of nothing going the way you want it to go. And then we came back and the first couple of weeks of the spring semester, I was like, nothing was connecting, I wasn't doing my best, that group was just not invested and not focused. And I realized that it was because we-- something was psychologically happening with having done all this preparation, and then no outcome from it, just total disconnect from it, and it became like, my body and my brain does not want to invest myself in this thing again, because I'm afraid of getting hurt again, sounds so cliche, but honestly, I was like what else is gonna happen? You know, we're gonna go to assessment and this will happen or who knows what's gonna-- the bus will break down or whatever, just all these extra scenarios and stuff that could possibly go wrong. And I think we've come from that now. I think we've moved forward. 

Beth Philemon: But how? That is a big… How does that happen? Like, I have not emotionally moved through this for you!

Kate Foiles: I mean, I honestly need the Summer to reset at this point, I was pretty much done with the school year in December, mentally I was like, I'm done. The other part of it is I've never put on a Fall concert so I'm not used to preparing, doing a concert, coming back to school the next day and starting to work on something else. I'm used to either, it's a Winter concert, here's two weeks of Winter break, because you're done. Here's a reward. Here's a break where you don't have to think or it's your Summer or your Spring concert, here's Summer to not think about anything else. I'm not used to packing it up and turning right back around and working on new stuff and neither are the kids. So that was another part of the Fall/Winter concert situation. 

We had within that group a good pep talk day, one time recently, a couple weeks ago. About everyone having to pull their own weight and and I realized that a lot of that is also like, what we just talked about moving through not wanting to invest yourself in this also because-- can we take a minute... middle schoolers admitting that they love something, especially choir, which is not necessarily seen as the coolest thing for some reason. They don't want to be-- they care so much about what other people say and see about them. And so if they're super invested in choir, how does that impact their social standing in middle school? And there are definitely some kids in my program who I can tell feel that and that makes me sad for them, but I can't-- there's nothing I can say as an adult who's not in the middle school hierarchy here to tell them that it's okay to fully commit yourself to the choreography we're doing or the song or the emotion or the facial expression, I can't convince them to do that. They have to want to do that on their own. So we talked a little bit about that. And I was really open with them. And I told them about how much I struggled moving on from VMEA, just to hopefully let them know that if they feel weird, and they can't pinpoint why, this could be the reason and I think we've made progress since then. But it's just gonna be-- we all just need a reset button, really at the end of the school year here to move forward.

Beth Philemon: I think that's huge, though, for you to be able to be so vulnerable with them and to admit how disappointing that has been.

Kate Foiles: Yeah. And I mean, it took me some mental boosting up, I think it was maybe in March, the beginning of March when we had this conversation. So it had been several months for me to, you know, move on because honestly at the time, I was like, I don't know if I just pushed it away or what but I was just like, okay, cool. This is how it is. I can't do anything about it. And then, let's do this Facebook Live, let's do Instagram Live, let's sing it one more time. And then I was like, okay Winter concert-- I had no choice, we had to move on. And they had no choice. So for a while, it was definitely like, not talking about it just kind of being like, oh, well that happened and whatever. And then when I started to feel just so disconnected from teaching, then I had to address why and I figured, probably the reason. I love my students and I love choir and I love doing what I get to do but it was hard. This year has been so hard to come back from that. For me personally.

Beth Philemon: I think preparing for that in and of itself is hard that no one talks about. You remember Darion from ACDA? He sat next to us at the Jake Runestad commission concert, he sat at the end of the row from us-- now he's crazy. His choir had performed at the state ACDA conference in October, and then turned around and performed at the state Music Educators conference in November, bless his soul. But I remember him telling me at our State Conference, “you will be done for the year after this” and thinking, are you kidding me? This is the springboard into amazing things for the rest of the year.

Kate Foiles: I definitely felt that way too. Yeah. 

Beth Philemon: But then I think okay, yes, I felt that way. But I at least had the culminating experience of a concert and I just want to express to anyone listening, it was like a soap opera, but I love soap operas. So if you don't like soap operas that won't sound like a compliment, but I grew up watching Days of Our Lives and General Hospital, but I mean it was like a soap opera of what is gonna happen next during this week and I don't know if you fully even realize how invested so many of us were in this journey and heart wrenching because--

Kate Foiles: And it was also like, you saw the weather coming on their radar and I was like, what's gonna happen, like a cliffhanger every day. Who knows?

Beth Philemon: And you're working through trying to switch spots. Can you do a performance at your school and Skype it in, but ultimately your principal said we can't open the campus because of the weather there. So I just want to, again, commit to people that are listening to this that we’re watching every single day during this process of like, the level with which we all were trying to figure out, what's a way that this can happen and I can't even fathom what you were feeling and thinking and how hard you were working during that to make something happen.

Kate Foiles: It was a lot of-- at the time I was like, I had to just keep moving because I was like, okay, well, can I do this? Can I do this? Can I do-- I can't just sit-- when school was cancelled, I couldn't just sit on the couch and have my bottle of wine and call it a night, which I did eventually, but I had to send text messages, I had to call my accompanist, I had to call the school, I had to call the bus company. I had to figure all this stuff out. There's an educator who works in Northern Virginia, Philip Keirstead and he was texting for me. He was texting people who had interest sessions on Saturday and he was like, hey, I found someone who's willing to give up half of her interest session timeslot, a person I don't know, a person I'd never met, I don't know who she is, was going to give up her interest session for me, for us to get to go to this performance. 

Ultimately, VMEA said that I, from what I understand their reasoning, they said it wouldn't technically really be fair for us because there were four groups that got cancelled that day. So if we were able to reschedule and no one else was, that wouldn't be fair, and I do understand that because the high school I feed into, their band was supposed to go as well. So I'm texting that director the whole time. And he's like, we're going anyway. And I'm like, I don't think you're going anyway, that's not fair. If you get to go and I don't get to go, I thought he was getting special permission from his principal. And, you know, so I can imagine if I brought my kids on a different day, everyone else would say well, could I have brought my kids on a different day, that's not fair to me, so I get it, that's fine. 

But yeah, it was just crazy. I tried all the options that I had, but it's like, doing all this work and then there's no proof. That's the thing. There's no proof that I did-- I mean, there is proof in various places on the internet that I did all this work to prepare. But there's no recordings of the songs. That's the part I regret the most. I was going to try and get a professional person to come in and record us. And I was just so done. I didn't want to hear the pieces anymore, the kids didn’t want to sing them anymore. And my band colleague said, oh, after you go, don't make them-- make them learn two songs for the Winter concert, don't make them do anything. They're not gonna want to do anything. And I was like, okay, I guess and I asked, do you guys want to learn some music? And they were like, sure, but then I mean, really, our hearts weren't really in it. They can learn the music. It sounds nice, but it was just emotionless singing at the Winter concert from that group.

But yeah, it was crazy. And I had people messaging me, lots of different people messaging me being like, oh my god, I'm watching the weather and keeping an eye on things for you. There were a couple breakdowns of like, this isn't fair on my couch. That's happened quite a bit. 

Beth Philemon: Good, good. There should have been!

Kate Foiles: Yeah. There wasn't anything I could do and that was why it wasn't fair. It was just so surprising. But here we are. And people are like, are you going to apply and take your kids again? Maybe... not this year. I'm not doing that next year. I just-- I'm not healed from that experience enough to take them again. Do I think that I will one day want to take my kids there? Yeah, because I think it's such a cool opportunity. But not next year. I'd really like to take my kids to an ACDA but that's a big ball game. That's the major league.

So then they offered my kids to perform at the Virginia All State band, choir, and orchestra event, which was just a couple weekends ago in April. So I picked out all this music for the most discerning audience of Virginia high school, middle school choir directors. And then this performance in April was going to be for choir directors, but also students I guess, I really don't know. And so the rep wasn't right. I would pick different stuff to entertain a group of high schoolers than I would to impress a group of choir directors. So the rep just wasn't right, it was also stale at that point. So I just said, no, I was just ready for it to be done. Really, I didn't want it to drag on into the Spring, I didn't want to bring my kids back to that whole experience because the girls had moved forward. We were learning assessment repertoire. I didn't want to be like, hey, let's all drag our emotions back to the Fall and think about this unfair thing that happened to all of us. 

Because they also were so hurt because I'm also texting my accompanist, texting my principal, emailing all the parents being like, okay, so it's canceled, but we might do this. Or we might have a Skype performance or we might be going on a different day, is your kid free on Saturday? This crazy massive chain of reply all emails happening with parents. And they're telling me that their kids are crying and their kids are so sad. And that was so hard for me too because, obviously because they're upset, but you know, when you hear that they're so invested in it too, that's even harder for me because I know how, you know, they might not show it in class because of that “not wanting to look too invested in choir” thing, but somewhere inside of them, they're still so invested in it. And when it's just them and their parents and they don't have to worry that's where that shows. And so that was always so hard to hear that they were upset about it too. 

Beth Philemon: I knew that I loved following you during the Summer and connecting and when you reached out to me about the fact that you were also preparing for VMEA, the months and weeks that followed upon meeting in the summer again, the day that we arrived in Winston Salem for our performance I got a notification on my phone. And Kate, knowing my love for coffee, found me on Venmo and sent me money--

Kate Foiles: I did some real stalking because I was like, what if this isn't the right person? And I was looking at previous payments that you've been making... I know it was very creepy of me. I was like, does this name follow her on Instagram? I'm cross referencing people here.

Beth Philemon: She sent me money for coffee as good luck coffee and I don't even know if I've shared with you but personally, I had just lost a friendship with one of my lifelong best friends and that's a whole other thing non-choir related, but I personally was just kind of in a vulnerable place in regards to friendships and feeling like am I worthy of friendships? Am I a good friend? Why would someone want to be friends with me and this is probably too personal for the podcast but it's also real and it also speaks to the power of choir and the power of relationships formed through music. And you doing that for me, it's something I will never forget and always appreciate because it meant so much on so many different levels. 

So I was already team @whathappensinchoir but that made me team Kate Foiles. And then, you know, two weeks later watching how you handle this entire experience made me co-president of team Foiles because you handled it with such class and maturity and I don't know of anyone else that could have handled it as well as you did and it just speaks so much to the type of person that you are and sets an example to everyone else. So thank you. 

Kate Foiles: Well that’s sweet. 

Beth Philemon: Well, we could talk for four hours, and I would love to but she has got things to do and I have things to do. So I want to close with a couple things-- you teach the holy grail of fear for many choir musicians, and that is middle school choir. Do you have three tips or three things to know or three things to not do or if someone is thinking middle school choir, what are three nuggets of knowledge you could bestow upon us?

Kate Foiles: Let’s see. One would be that-- this is what I tell anyone when they say oh my god bless you for teaching middle school because I get that-- they will go as far as you push them which is cool. They still, especially the young ones, the sixth graders or some of the seventh graders, they still have this elementary school level sense of wonder and excitement when they get things right. But they have, if you push them hard, they have the ability of a high schooler to achieve hard things. So you get this cool combination of actual technical ability and then when they get it right and they have the light bulb moment they get excited like they’re kids still because they don't have that inhibition like high schoolers do to not geek out about stuff sometimes. Like we're doing This is Me at our spring concert and we had this crazy chord situation, three part chord. And it was like, I was not sure it was going to come together. And I was like, let's just try it and run it. And they did it. And it was amazing. I had chills and they were like, that was so cool. Oh my god. And this girl raised her hand and asked me a question and she couldn't get words out. She was still so excited, she was like, I'm sorry, I can't, hold on. I'm just so excited. And I was like, yeah, that's my moment, that's what I want every day. You know, that's what we all want everyday. But so Middle School has that cool combination of people. 

On the practical side of things, my choirs are split by gender. And I would never want to do it any other way. My sixth grade choir is not split by gender because most of their voices haven't changed. So sixth grade is everybody but then in seventh and eighth grade I split so the boys, we have an understanding that if their voice cracks and I hear it they get candy. I'm not here to be like, oh, don't let your voice crack. If someone's voice cracks they're like, oh, John gets candy and I go get candy and he gets some and it’s fine, we don't worry about it. 

And with the girls too, I can talk to them that their voice changes have to do with puberty and I say puberty and they all cringe and I think it's hilarious like maybe I just have the right level of weird for middle school, which I think is also important but the whole thing is just making them comfortable and making them knowledgeable and it's so much easier with their voice change when they're separate and you don't have to worry about squirmy weirdness when you talk about why girls voices are changing or why boys voices are changing and hormones and stuff like that. So having them split by gender, if you're in a situation where your administration is supportive of that or you want to try it, just try it. I think it's amazing. If you have any questions, send me a message. I didn't set them up this way. They were like this when I got to the school, but that's been really cool. 

And then my third tip, okay, my second and a half tip-- when it comes to the voice change, learn about it. Don't just be like, yeah, your voice changes, cool. Learn your own butt off about female and male voice change for middle school because I wasn't in choir in Middle School and-- well I was in eighth grade, but not in sixth and seventh grade. No one told me the female voice changes until I was 26 years old. And I was like, oh, that makes sense, cool. But that wasn't fair for me. Or for any middle and high school kids who never learned that the reason your voice is so breathy and the reason you're out of breath is not because you're singing wrong it's because one side of your vocal cords maybe grew a little faster than the other and you have a space that the air can flow through. I didn't know that and they didn't know that and then I told them and then they're fine. They're not like, oh my god, I can't hit those notes, I'm so breathy. They're like, I wish my voice would hurry up and change. And I love that. 

So get yourself learned about the voice change, and then check the kids voices. So I do voice checks at least twice a year where I have them sing in groups of two for me, and I mark their passaggio and I mark their highest comfortable note and I mark their highest actual note and their lowest comfortable note and their lowest actual note. And then I find their speaking pitch which is always fun. I make them spell their last name backwards because you can't think about anything else when you're spelling your last name backwards. And then they don't adjust the pitch of their voice. So if you're like, count to 10, I'm gonna listen to your speaking pitch. They're like “1234” [in a high pitch] and they change their voice. But if I'm like, okay, spell your last name backwards, or spell your middle name backwards. They don't know why, but they'll do it and they don't think about their pitch. So that's how you can find a speaking pitch which is very cool. So yeah, read up on the voice change if you're going to be in the middle school jungle.

Beth Philemon: What are some of your voice changing tips or who are your go-tos of learning about voice change?

Kate Foiles: I'm recently super obsessed with Bridget Sweet who works in Illinois-- Beth knew I was gonna bring this up. She's amazing, shout out. She was the Virginia clinician for All State and she has a cool book that came out a couple years ago called Growing Musicians and it's all about Middle School, teaching middle schoolers, and she has another book coming out this fall that's about the voice change. And she does a lot of research about how it psychologically affects the kids, and not just physical, yes, you can read up on that from Lynn Gackle or whoever, Cooksey, but she talks about how it has psychologically affected students and how they react when they learn that there's nothing wrong with them. And it's super cool. So you should definitely check that out. 

But my last tip is find the right music for your kids. There's so much cool choir music that I would love to do. And there's so much that's super unrealistic for me to do. And I have these high hopes and big dreams that I can do all this amazing women's choir music with my 13 and 14 year old students which is not always appropriate subject matter wise, difficulty wise, etc. But the biggest obstacle I've encountered is the middle school boy range which is a tiny little chunk of notes. I had boys for two quarters maybe this year who could sing five pitches in total, accurately. And my student teacher came in this spring and was like, what? And I was like, yeah, these are the notes he can hit. So I can't-- I'm not gonna pick music for him that's not in that range. And he was like, I don't believe you. And I was like, okay, come up here, let's sing these pitches. And truly there's a while where there are middle school boys that can hit five different pitches accurately. 

And so I have to go on this intense hunt for music that is appropriate and sounds good and it's still fun, but it's in the right range. And then there's always the, okay, well, I'll just rewrite this part, but then I write it in my music, but have you asked a middle schooler to write a part in their own music before? It doesn't ever go as planned. I tried to get sixth graders to write in a page of music and it was the worst idea I've ever had, but we move forward. But yeah, I mean, it's just so careful. So I was lucky enough to find a piece for the boys for assessment where the tenor two part is three pitches. And I was like, this is amazing, they can all hit these notes, this is great, whatever. But I also still have altos in my Boys Choir. And I have basses in the Boys Choir. 

So you just have to be patient and listen to what other people suggest is the other part of that repertoire thing. There's people that know what they're doing and have done this for a long time. And if they give you their tried and true repertoire list, sometimes you just do it, you don't even think about whether you personally liked the song or not, if they say it's a tried and true piece that they always love using and the boys always like doing, just just do it, just buy it and do it. Because sometimes-- I know I said that everything is different, but there are some things that if they work, they work and they're going to work every time, some pieces of music. If you're looking at boys music, Laura Farnell does amazing stuff for boys. I pick a lot of her stuff out. And then Andrea Ramsey is my other go-to person, she's wonderful, but those are my little tips for entering the middle school world. Just be patient. They're weird. You have to be weird too, you can't be not weird and teach Middle School.

Beth Philemon: Truth. And it's also not as scary as it seems. Right? I mean, I didn’t realize you wanted to teach the baby babies and then you found your place in middle school. 

Kate Foiles: Never. I could never teach the baby babies anymore. Yeah, you just have to be-- I've had a student from Virginia Tech observing me recently, and she was like, you have so much patience. And I was like, I don't have a choice. I can get mad at this kid for being out of his seat for the 17th time. Or I can just ignore him. I can't tie him to the chair, I'm just not allowed. So I don't have a choice at a certain point about how upset I get about what these kids are doing. And just the devotion and the dedication that you can get from a sixth grade child is the best part of this. And then if they stay in through eighth grade, and they're your huge music nerd kids, those are the kids that I love to grow. I just love to foster those super nerdy music kids who will sight-read for fun and harmonize when we have free time, they're there. You just have to find that relationship with them. So that's my other tip is just build relationships. I had a kid invite me to her cello recital recently. They’re just so sweet…

Beth Philemon: Did you go?

Kate Foiles: I haven't and I think I'm going to be out of town. But I have a big calendar in my room where they can write any of their sports games or recitals or whatever. And I try and go when I can.

Beth Philemon: I one time had a student invite me to her Irish step dancing competition.

Kate Foiles: That would be fun. My college roommate broke her hip doing Irish dancing.. as a fun fact, shout out.

Beth Philemon: Which leads us to fun facts. How do you take your coffee? 

Kate Foiles: Well, right now I have just cream in it. It just depends on the day, really. Do you want to do two truths and a lie? 

Beth Philemon: Okay. Yeah, let's do it. 

Kate Foiles: Okay. I'm going to cover the camera so that you can't see my face. Because I feel like that'll give it away. Here’s two truths and a lie. I have been skiing in Switzerland. I have a world record. I turned 11 in Thailand.

Beth Philemon: I'm gonna say that the lie is the Thailand one.

Kate Foiles: The lie is the Switzerland one. 

Beth Philemon: Ah… so what is this world record?

Kate Foiles: My husband and I have-- well not just us-- but us and like 800 other people have a world record for most people simultaneously tying bow ties at the same time for a fundraiser for-- I think it was a dance marathon fundraiser when we were in grad school. He has the framed thing on the wall. 

Beth Philemon: Also that is so South Carolina.

Kate Foiles: Oh, very much so yeah, it was sponsored by this menswear shop and everything. It was the whole thing. But yeah, so I have a world record for most people simultaneously tying bow ties. And I turned 11 on vacation in Thailand because we were living in Japan at the time because my dad was in the Air Force. 

Beth Philemon: Wow. Thailand is on one of my lists. If you were not a choir teacher, do you think you'd be a psychologist? Or would you be doing something else?

Kate Foiles: I don't know... if I was not a choir teacher, the things that I would like to do other than being a choir teacher are-- I would like to craft things for a living is my number one of what I would do. I've toyed with the idea of being a nurse because I really wanted to be a doctor when I was little. But I don't want to do that much school at this point and getting all that debt. I would maybe be a therapist. I need to get into my own therapist before I could be a therapist. Shout out to therapy!

Beth Philemon: Yes, highly. I just celebrated my year anniversary with my therapist currently. Why should someone-- like if someone is listening to this and they've been in choir in the past, or they haven't been in choir, why choir?

Kate Foiles: If you've been in choir in the past and you miss it and you want to get back involved, it is the same reason that you liked it in the first place. It's a break in your day. Your brain gets to do something else. You can't make mental lists about all the stuff you have to do when you're sitting in a choir rehearsal. It's a total brain break and you can build relationships with people. I'm currently trying to get into this other ensemble that I'm trying to sing with. So I'm working on that email process for myself right now, which is cool. But if you've never sung in the choir and you've always been interested in singing in choir, find a church choir, even if you're not a religious person, or find a community choir and just try it because we're adults now. And at this point, none of us are playing for anything. I'm not going to a competition with my church choir. I'm not going to competitions with my community choir-- I mean, yes, you put on a concert at the end of the semester or whatever, but you're not out here trying for first place or anything. Everyone's just there because they like doing it. And even if you're not a superstar, there's still a place for everyone who loves singing in a choir. And if that's too serious, go to a karaoke bar, because that is the most fun you could possibly ever have. We went to one in New York where you rent a room. So you're in this room with only your friends. Which is so much less vulnerable than doing karaoke in front of a bunch of strangers. And it was a blast. Honestly, I was like, we're going to a karaoke room, that's weird, but it was so much fun. Just get singing if you love singing, do more of it. 

Beth Philemon: I agree. #morepeoplesinging. Thank you so much. Thank you. On this holiday week of spending some time to officially speak with me and to share your story with others. And if people want to find you, I think we've plugged it enough but we can plug it again. They go to @whathappensinchoir on Instagram. 

Kate Foiles: Because that's too long of a handle for Twitter, so I don't know I can bring it over there. I have to figure out what I'm going to do

Beth Philemon: Okay. Are you on Teachers Pay Teachers?

Kate Foiles: I am on Teachers Pay Teachers, my summer goal is to get products up on it, but I do have a page, there's nothing listed for sale. But definitely that's one of my summer goals is to put stuff on Teachers Pay Teachers.

Beth Philemon: Awesome. So people can check that out and then you can help motivate her by pestering her, you know, dming her, tagging her and stuff and saying, hey Kate...

Kate Foiles: Cause I definitely post stuff in my highlights that I'm like, oh, I should probably put this on Teachers Pay Teachers and people are like, is this there? It's not yet. But we have busy lives.

Beth Philemon: It is a balancing act. It is a balance. Actually. You know, I've been reading on this. I don't think it's a balancing act. I think it's being okay with at some point, there's going to be more of this and less of this, and just balancing as in like, it's never going to be equal, but always one side is going to be higher than the other and remembering to go back and forth between.

Kate Foiles: If you have 100% of yourself to give to something and sometimes something gets 70%, something else gets 30. But that's how it goes.

Beth Philemon: Well, I hope you loved my conversation with Kate just as much as I loved having it. And again, I’m just so grateful for this thing called the internet because without it, I would not have this girl's amazing friendship and have learned and grown so much as a musician, and as a person from knowing her. If you've not done so already, and you're an iTunes listener, it would mean the world if you would take the time to leave us a five star review. And if you really have the time and are really in the mood to be generous, I would so love if you would leave a written review and maybe just take a couple sentences and share with us what episode really spoke to you and why you enjoyed listening to it so much. 

In addition to sharing your reviews on iTunes more than anything, screenshot this episode, let us know that you're listening to it, tag @choirbaton, tag Kate, tag myself, and let us be able to share it on our social media as well so we know that you've listened and what your thoughts were, so that we can continue to know how to really drive the conversations that we're having here on Choir Baton so that they can continue to be a meaningful experience for you. 

I'm so grateful that you've tuned into this interview, this conversation and I’m thankful that you're along on this journey with me. Again, my name is Beth Philemon, and I'm your host, you can check me out on Instagram, @baphilemon. And if you haven't volunteered to sign up to hold the Choir Baton, please consider doing that. So we can keep the baton running from choir to choir all year long. Until then, keep singing!