Choir Baton Podcast Episode 16. The Future of Choir Baton

If you follow ChoirBaton founder, Beth Philemon, on social media you know she has recently announced she's leaving her full time high school choral music teaching position to pursue a full time MBA (Master of Business Administration) degree this fall.

What does this mean for ChoirBaton and what led Beth to this path? Find out the scoop by listening to this week's episode of the ChoirBaton podcast.

Choir Baton Host: Beth Philemon @bethphilemon | www.bethphilemon.com

Visit Choir Baton Online: @choirbaton | www.choirbaton.com

Choir Baton Theme Song by Scott Holmes

Beth: I just wanted to jump on here and share with you guys a little bit about my journey. And some announcements that I've made and just kind of explain to you my vision for Choir Baton in the future. I don't have like, I mean, I have a blank notepad sitting next to me. I don't have anything written out. I'm going kind of off the cuff here. But I have been thinking about whether or not to make this episode for the last several months. And I wanted to jump in and just kind of share. 

Welcome to the Choir Baton, a podcast designed to engage with people and stories, ideas and inspirations stemming from choir. No other art form. No sports, no hobby. Nope business requires a group of people to execute a communal goal with just their voices. Join me your host Beth Philemon, as I interview guests who are singers, teachers, conductors, instrumentalists, and community members. Together, we'll ask questions to seek understanding and share insights from our experiences in life and in choir.

So if you follow me on Instagram or on Facebook, you know that about two months ago, which is insane that it's been that long. And two months ago, I resigned from my position teaching high school choir at Sanderson in Raleigh, North Carolina. And that decision came unexpectedly and it's also been at the core of my thoughts and dreams and mind for many, many, many years. So I resigned because this fall I am starting a full-time graduate program to get a degree of Masters in Business Administration from North Carolina State University here in Raleigh, with a focus on entrepreneurship. 

And there's so many so many layers to this. And I want to come at it from the right angle, but there's a right angle. Because there are so many angles to this. So let me just kind of back up even to January. January of this year, I was talking with my best friends in their kitchen. As we kind of have like a Monday night mastermind get together/ if the bachelorettes on, we watch that. And I was talking with Jessica and Chad and Chad was saying that he was looking into getting his MBA at some point.

 You know, try to- it's funny that you say that I really have thought about getting my MBA for many, many years and have thought now might be kind of a chance to begin really looking into that. I have been- it's been nine years since I graduated from college, I got a master's in choral conducting. And in December, I was- I received my National Board Certification at teaching, which in addition to is like, Yay, National Boards is also a pay increase, which was very timely. And I was kind of looking for the next thing. And actually, last year before I had really started my National Boards, I began looking at East Carolina University's online MBA program and investigating that but I thought, you know, I really want to make sure I get my National Boards first, before I look at any sort of business degree, and this whole quest for a business degree comes from several different places. 

When I graduated from high school, I went to university in Nashville, Tennessee. See, for several reasons. One, it was not in North Carolina. I'm from Raleigh. I haven't lived here the whole time as I'll soon share. But I was anxious and like rip roaring and ready to get out of North Carolina. And my parents and my grandparents, on my father's side, had both attended Tribeca Nazarene University in Nashville, Tennessee, and my church was my family who was very involved in the Nazarene church.

 At this time. We went to homecoming with my dad who was on the homecoming or on the Alumni Board. And we would frequently go to graduations, a lot of different Nashville connections, and I thought, well, what greater way to get out of Raleigh, than to tell my parents Oh, I'm going to your alma mater. And I really did like aspects of Tribeca too. So that was a draw. And secondly, Music City or It sounds very exciting. And Rebecca had a degree called music business. And I thought, well, that's kind of like the best of both worlds. unbeknownst to me, I think even at this point in my journey, I was interested in business. But business is not something that my family members have done in the past. My mother was an educator and worked for the church. My father was in the medical field, and I knew I did not want to be in the medical field. My grandparents, my dad's parents were both in education and in fact, my father's father. So my paternal grandfather was first a band teacher before he moved into school administration. And my mom's side of the family. My grandfather worked for a pharmaceutical company, but wasn't like in a lucrative possession within that. But I mean, it was still very well thought of and did well within the company and my grandmother was a homemaker. She, I guess she did have like one side job that she did after a while, but for the most part, she stayed home and took care of the kids.

So I thinkI kind of like had this baby business, even when I was a senior in high school. But because I had not been surrounded by that, just in a general family sense, but also the women in my family. Whether I was cognizant of it at the time or not, I really think that I didn't let my mind fully go there for a lot of different reasons. And I would identify those reasons now as limiting beliefs, which I'll talk more about within this journey. 

But the music business was a great way in the door. There was also a scholarship that I wanted through my college or through my high school, that you had to be majoring in music to be able to get and so that worked to be able to get that scholarship my first year. Went to Tribeca in Nashville and started as a music business major. And I was fortunate to really even be in a liberal arts school. I was really able to get into some music business classes. My first year I took introduction to music business one and two in the fall and spring semesters. I took a music publishing class and I also had an internship that first year with a record company called M Pop records. And the class, the introduction to music business classes, was taught by a wonderfully precious man by the name of Jim focus on who discovered Garth Brooks and River McIntyre. And was really cool but you know, Doctor focused on was like 80 at the time, and while he had amazing stories of the industry and great insight, this is 2005 six that we're talking about. 

The music industry is really changing because we have the rise of Napster and ripping music onto CDs, it's very, it's very different. And in that internship I did with a record label. While I loved certain aspects of it, I looked around at the people at the company that were working there and I thought, I just don't seem very happy. And I quickly realized, looking at the degree looking at people that were farther along in the degree than I was, and even some people that I knew that had recently graduated with a music business degree, that if I wanted to work in the music, industry, whatever that meant, I kind of didn't need a degree for that, that I really needed to go more business or more music. And business was something I didn't know anything about. And my parents didn't have any experience with that. And while they've always encouraged me and told me to go after my dreams, I I didn't feel as encouraged. courage to go that route. 

And it's not that they didn't encourage me.But I just think they didn't know. And business. We had this mindset kind of growing up of it's an “us and them” mentality to be blatantly honest. And I've shared this with my parents since then. And it's been interesting to hear their perspectives. But Music Music is something that my family knew, you know, I grew up, my mom played the piano in the church, my dad would play the organ. Like I said, My dad's father was a music educator. He also was a church music Minister for many, many years. He sang in a gospel quartet, and my paternal grandmother played the piano. 

Music is something that like my family got, and I felt good and it was kind of like my niche. So I thought, well, you can always use a music degree and you can always use a teaching degree and so on. Change to music. I had my sophomore year of college. And I loved it. I was so fortunate to get into really great practicum placements, even my sophomore year of college and observing different high schools, and different High School choral programs, particularly not having grown up in the state. And my high school chorus teacher was my idol. My high school choral experience really revolutionized my life for so many different reasons. I was always very heavily involved in music at church, and that's where a lot of my identity was. 

So went ahead and completed the music Ed degree and whether again, I was like cognizant of this then, or this is some, which I think I was but I don't I don't think I would have ever spoken about this is so much of this journey is taking Tied up into societal and I'm gonna say also religious expectations. My family was raised. And then as we're in church, which is generally pretty conservative, and evangelical, excuse me, I drink some water.

And all of the women in my family, their main primary job was to get married and have children. And my parents were never ones that were like, oh, gotta get married, times a ticking, we want grandchildren. But I felt this pressure to live my life in that sort of way that that was the next step in life and that was expected and, and it was fortunate with a really great family experience and I wanted that there was a part of me that really wanted to find This life partner and, and to be married and to begin a family. And so I thought, Man well to be a music educator, I can really build a career as a music teacher, and still be a wife and a mom, because everyone says that being a teacher is a great career to have and to pursue. You can kind of have the best of both worlds. And I've seen that model to me from my mother, and even from my grandparents. 

So music ahead, what would happen if I'd gone into business and then I got married and had kids and what I have had to put my business dreams on hold, and I couldn't do both. I mean, again, this is 2007. And I, whether it's I'm more aware of it, but I also think especially social media, and the media in general, has shown us women that they can have it all. And when I say have it all, I mean both careers in business and careers, as mothers and I say careers as mothers, we could discuss that in a whole other sense and what that means but, and sticking with choir and life and carpet odd in this journey. 

I just think that is a very important part to my story is feeling like part of me chose music good, because it would enable me to do some of that. And I graduated from high school. And from college, I had amazing practicum experiences at elementary music and at a high school in downtown Nashville, and was so fortunate to interview for my first choral position and receive the call later that day to come and work and teach sixth through 12th grade choral music at an academic magnet school just north of Nashville and a suburb of Henderson And this is a minor aside, but I was working on it. I was working at an audio company. 

During, during the summer when I was interviewing the summer after I graduated, and the summer that I started this teaching position. And I remember getting the call from my cooperating teacher that I'd student-taught with and Lisa goes, I just got called as a reference from Merrill hide, and I gave them raving reviews, they're gonna call and offer you the job. And Lisa, like, I don't know, it's teaching middle school and high school, I'm not really sure about that. And she was like, Beth, you do not pass up an opportunity like this, you take the job. And so I love and respect Lisa and I said, Okay, I'll take the job. 

And I don't regret it for a second that I did. But you know, I mentioned that at this point. I was working for an audio company during the summer. And this is another crazy Part Two to the story in this journey. And It was February of my sophomore year of college. So February of 2007. I got a babysitting gig for a family in Franklin. And it's for two families that night. And one of the families that I was babysitting for. They even said something to me that night. They're like, Hey, we're looking really for someone to work for us this summer. And it's kind of like a half gig, you're half working in our office. And it's funny, we're like, probably a lot of it's going to be in our warehouse. And the other half of it is going to be babysitting our daughter, and I just was kind of like, wow, I mean, I love to babysit and seems like a pretty sweet gig. I didn't have to spend the next couple months looking for a summer job and I said, Okay.

And so the summer of 2007 I guess that was I began working for this family. And it was an amazing gig where Dan Kathy and - Well, technically, I guess, at the time, kind of two audio companies, one was an audio design company and another one was a home theater audio company motivo. And then an older daughter, just who was away in graduate school. I mean, she was either in California or London at this point. And a younger daughter, Danielle, who I began babysitting. And it was really great because Dan and Kathy worked together in running the company. And there were a couple other employees in and out. But they ran it together. And when Cathy wanted to spend time with Danielle, who was probably in like fourth or fifth grade at the time, I would go and work at image Eva and Jade, and whether it was answering questions, handling emails, I would do shipping labels for a motiva at the time because motiva was a very small brand thin they'd recently acquired 

And, and then when Kathy needed to get stuff done at the office, then I would go and take Danielle and and, you know, entertain her and we'd galavan during that summer. And that relationship with this family also changed my life dramatically for a multitude of reasons. But Kathy was the first example of a female that kind of had the both the best of both worlds of having this career as someone who she continues to run the business you know, she's the CEO or CEO of a motiva at this today and emotive is just grown exponentially since this point and, and yet she was also this, this mother that was able to schedule her life around spending time with her daughter and that example that she said, For me, without even realizing it, and quite honestly, I'm not sure if I even realized it at the time would serve as a catalyst for my mindset in regards to what you think you can and you can't have in this life. 

And Kathy continued to serve as not just employers, but truly as family. And I ended up babysitting for them on a Friday night and then I would just spend the night over and wake up in the morning on Saturday morning and have breakfast with them and my family was nine hours away here in North Carolina. And they, they just took me under their wing. And I was fascinated with the work that they were doing with the company that they were building with the ins and outs of it. I would remember they would have all these magazines like an ink magazine, which is a business magazine on there in tables. And on the Saturday mornings when I was hanging out there, Friday nights, when I was in babysitting, I would, I would read through those magazines and for the first time in my life, I was really surrounded in this different type of culture of, of the working world. And I saw what they were building and I saw the work that they were doing, and the joy that it brought them and the creativity and it just was incredibly inspiring and infectious. 

And so I continued to babysit for them. But then also, like I said, they were generous enough to allow me into their life to be a surrogate family. And it's funny when I graduated in even in my senior year of college, Dan would be like, are you never gonna last in teaching? Are you sure you want to be a teacher? We always have a job for you here at motiva and I would always smile it's, you know, I know and I love emo. But yeah, I do. Want to see this music Ed thing through because that's the other side of it is even though I chose music education and through this like, mindset of this will be a great career for me as as a wife and as a mother, I do love it so much and find so much passion and even then I would talk about how building a choir program is building a business. There is so much business that goes into running, like just a choir and then especially a choir program. And in my mind, that would enable me to build a business and utilize my love of choir at the same time was to be a high school choir director.

So I didn't end up working for a motiva full time. Even though that first year of teaching. I would continue I think I even I maybe even worked for them a summer actually. After that first year of teaching, sometimes I would do different trade shows with them. But I always loved keeping up with business and hearing their stories and connections. Even as I became a even as I became a teacher, and actually, I guess at one point I did live with them for six months. And, and continue to be a part of their lives. They are still Yeah, they're, they're just very influential in in my life and, and being inspirational for me. So, I'm going and my first year of teaching is complete. 

And what's really funny is there is a Facebook status that I will share at some point that says, you know, just about the time I think that I'm going to get a master's in music degree. All I can think about is Business School. Because while I loved Teaching choir, I had this business bug. And I began researching getting an MBA. And Belmont University had a strong MBA program, strong business program. One of my best friends at the time, was looking into getting her masters of Accountancy through the business program. And they also had a really big, beautiful building that was being built on the 12th, South area of Nashville. And I met with the business school about what I would need to do for an MBA. And at this point, we're like 2010, and the recession is how I was like here because it's 2008. 

The recession I hit, I believe, so what were people that lost their jobs in the recession doing, they were going back to school, and the prerequisites required for an MBA program, particularly if you did not have a business background. And if you had a music background, and the way I was able to complete Music degree. And almost a music business minor degree then was because I cleped, math, science, English. And I didn't clip history because my music history courses covered those. But CLEP testing is where you some schools accept it, not all of them, but it's like kind of taking an AP test to cover that credit. Except you don't take an AP class, you just go in and take this computerized test in order to test out of the subjects. 

So I had no college math experience, or certainly not an economics or statistics, anything like that. So I needed a bunch of course prerequisites to apply and be considered for the MBA program. And when I began looking up course, prerequisites and the amount that I needed to take, I think it was like 12 hours. So you have four different classes. They were so expensive. This was our I would have done them through online education because online learning was really growing at that time, not to what it is now. But like LSU Where was the university they they told me to go and check classes out at and that I would have been several thousand dollars, just for me to take the prerequisites to then go and pursue an MBA degree. And I'm making $30,000 a year as a teacher, and between some student loans and car payments and living expenses, and just adulting i didn't i was barely making it as it was much less tacking on several thousand dollars of prerequisites for a business degree. 

So, I have finished my second year of teaching at this point and realized that, you know, getting an MBA is possibly not in the cards at this point with the amount of money that I'm making and placing I'm in life. And maybe this is just the universe saying like, it's great that you have this dream, but you really should continue on the path that you're on because I was at a great school and again, I love to teaching music. And so that's summer of 2011 or 2011. I applied for and got a teaching assistant slash counselor position at North Carolina Governor's School, which is a six week summer in long enrichment program for highly gifted and talented students in North Carolina to come and study in applied area for for six weeks, 30 said that and you have to apply or audition, there are all kinds of subjects. 

So math, social science, natural science, English, French, Spanish, instrumental music, choral music, dance, visual art theater, and there's two separate campuses North East Northland West. And I was accepted to be the teaching assistant counselor for the choral music program at East that summer, which is in Raleigh, which is great because I was near my family. And that summer I got the opportunity to work with the lead teacher, whose name is Paul Carey. 

And Paul has written some really great choral pieces. One of my favorites, is mashed potato left song. He has a beautiful setting of Sarah diesel's poem. Life has loveliness to sell, which is sometimes called barter. Oh, unending flame is a great Hanukkah tonight. He's written to part with the baller clarinet part in it. He's written a lot of really, really great stuff. So Paul was the lead teacher. And Paul became such a great mentor to me that summer. And even though I was just a teaching assistant, we didn't have an accompanist. And we worked seamlessly together so much so that I conducted all of the accompanied pieces. And he played on the piano. And then he accompanied all of the acapella pieces, which is huge, because most teaching assistants at this school, do not get that kind of podium time. 

But he just was such a supporter of me, and was like, you know, but I really think getting a master's degree in choral conducting is what you need to go and do. So, I thought about it a lot that summer and really loved the level of which I was conducting the music, the caliber of students, etc. And I went back home from that summer teaching and I thought, you know, I'm gonna do this, I'm going to go after a master's degree in choral conducting because there was so much more I wanted to learn that I felt like I had not learned in my graduate school experience. I mean, my undergraduate school experience. So I said, “well, Paul, I like where do I, where do I apply?” because keep in mind, I'd gone to a really small liberal arts school that had like a choral program but it was like a CDA. I don't think I really knew what a CDA was. I only went to one naff me concert conference. And that's because it was paired with Allstate and I had a student singing at Allstate when I was a teacher, I was really out of the concert, or the conference loop in the professional organization loop because my university had not looped me in on a lot of that I didn't, I didn't understand.

I admittedly was very sheltered in a multitude of ways. So I so where do you think I should apply? And Paul's like? Well, my three favorite programs right now are University of Kentucky with Jeff Johnson, Northern Arizona University with Edith copely, and the University of Southern California, with Michael Shelby and so I applied All three of those programs, and I actually also applied to the University of Tennessee and audition to all four of those. I have no fear or shame in telling you that my University of Southern California audition was probably the most embarrassing experience of my life. It was my first grad school audition. And it was like, I had no idea what the heck I was doing. 

Remember what I said, I was sheltered. Like, I didn't realize how sheltered I really wasn't at this point. I'm teaching sixth through 12th grade choral music at a really small rural school. And part of that audition process is an hour before the audition. they hand you a piece of music that you've never seen before. You literally, like,draw it from an envelope, and you have an hour to prep it and then you go in and rehearse essentially the USC Chamber Singers for I don't know 10 minutes, or what feels like an hour after you just do a straight run through conducting Benjamin Britain's rejoice in the Lamb. And so the side story I conducted Joyce and the lamb and I feel pretty confident about I'd worked super hard on that. And the piece I'd been given was Bruckner's Ave Maria, which I will never forget. And what's funny is the girl that pulled it right before me pull dellacroix is a jubilant song, which I had recently song and she had recently sung the Brookner and we were like, we had a trade why we didn't I don't know probably because we felt like that would have been wrong and I guess it would have been anyhow.

 So the Brookner is like, really slow and beautiful and like long cords, and I'll just, it's really not actually a hard read. And I'll never forget, I went and gave the downbeat and I was like,you know, expletive in my brain because your ears unless you're fully prepared for that, which I don't know if you can be fully prepared for that. I mean, I remember thinking it just being like an out of body experience. In not even knowing how to react because the sound is just like nothing I've had the opportunity to sit in front of and wave my arms for before. 

So there's so many different levels to that audition experience was was such a learning, learning thing. And I could tell you stories about all the other schools. I love my university of kentucky audition. The ultimate reason why I didn't go to University of Kentucky is because the program was one year and I really wanted a two year program. And although I was like, it was my favorite audition of everywhere. I lived so much about it. But I was really captivated watching Dr. Copely work at NYU. 

And so long story short, I go to NYU grad school and that program could be another podcast in and of itself. So I'm just going to breeze through that and breeze back to the fact I was graduating from NYU.

And that, you know, I've lived away from my family for at this point it had been nine years. And Raleigh had changed a lot and that place that I had so desperately sought to run away from to go to grad or to go to undergrad for I was ready to go back to I was ready to be near my parents again. 

My sister and I had never been close at all. Until really my last year of grad school we really started speaking at some point to a very interesting relationship and and I was just ready to be back near them and I and I loved Raleigh, and so I took a took a leap of faith and Raleigh's a big area, there's a lot of schools and I thought, well, surely something something will open up. The other interesting thing I guess about this, my high school choir teacher who I'd shared was like my the pillar of musical excellence and like set ideal of everything I wanted to embody as a choir director had retired in the middle of my graduate school experience, and I'll never forget her calling me inside, like, are you sure you can't finish your your graduate degree in North Carolina and come take over at the school? And I'm like, No, I, you know, I don't want to give up here. I'm really happy. 

So there was a part of me that thought, Well, you know, there's always that story of the sacrificial lamb choir teacher that goes in for a year and they're like, we're and then the next person comes in. So I think there was a part of me at this point that thought, you know, had been that teacher that hits over for my high school choral director had been there a year, and maybe she'll leave and I'll just be able to come back and interview for the position at my alma mater and, and that was just be perfect. I mean, he'll be ready to begin my life. And I think at this point, too, there was a big part of me that thought my life was ready to begin at this point. Because I had teaching experience, I had a master's degree in a field that I loved and felt so passionate about.

 And so the only things that were really missing from my life were that staple, high school career position. And a man by my side, and little children coming out of my womb, and I would just life would be everything that I'd hoped and dreamed for, or what I thought I was hoping and dreaming for. So I moved back to Raleigh, and I began the job search for an ideally a high school position in the Raleigh Durham area. And having taught middle school before I actually really enjoyed teaching Middle School. It wasn't like the total bee's knees, but I didn't hate it. I really loved my middle schoolers, I thought, well, I'll look at some middle schoolers or middle schools too. And the year that I moved back to Raleigh, there were zero High School. positions open in Wake County, which is the county rallies and in wake Durham, or in Orange County, which are the three big surrounding counties in the RDU triangle area. And Wake County is huge in and of itself. It's the third largest school district in the country. And there was one it one Middle School choral position that summer in Wake County.

 And I long story short interviewed for the position and accepted it on the spot when it was offered to me. And it was on a modified schedule meeting. It started in like a week by the time I interviewed for it. And I restarted a choral program there that had been defunct, I guess for the past year and a half, two years due to a variety of different reasons and the A lot more I could talk about this experience as well. I shared about it briefly on on a brief post. But I went in that first day with excitement. It was a beautiful room. No, it was dirty as all get out and my entire family, bless their souls, cleaned up at choir room on their hands and knees, dirt, grime, everything. I mean, we made that room bang in, in like a weekend because I had such a short turnaround time. 

And my dad talks about when I came home from that first day at that school the sheer exhaustion and fear and and so many emotions that were in my face and I will never forget, I lay down on the couch. I was living with my parents that year because I was saving up for a house. And the I think I slept I got home at what like four 330 maybe and I probably slept until eight and that year was the hardest year of my of my life. Because for a lot of different reasons, it was nothing like I'd ever experienced. Remember, I taught at an academic magnet school, I had no concept of what real public education was like and what it was like to teach, and that sort of an environment. And I just had no idea what I was getting myself into. And I wouldn't change it for the world because that experience really showed me that as a society, we are not a culture of singing. And I had always been in environments where singing had been a part of the culture, but I was for the first time exposed to large groups of students that had never been in a choral experience and for a lot of them had never wanted to be in a choral experience until they got there. 

And all of these things that I had learned and mindsets that I'd thought and, and everything that in my brain would work in that type of setting to motivate a student and want a kid to be there. was not working, because students had changed a lot. And these were unlike students that I'd ever taught before. I did not know how to teach kids how to understand and interact and read with music before because at that point, I had realized that I myself hadn't realized that there never been a point in my life that I didn't know how to read music. 

I was so fortunate to have begun piano lessons when I was in kindergarten. And I always knew where middle C was. I was doing a quarter and it was I always knew what four four was now my rhythm stunk. And I never practiced as much as I needed to and I'm like, nowhere near as great pianists but, but the gist of it is I it was such a part of me. I didn't know how it could not be a part of someone. And then I realized I didn't know how to teach someone that music had never music education, music literacy. had not been a large part of their life. And I finished that year with every intention to go back and take everything that I had learned that year and do it even better the second year when an area charter school approach to me that they were very interested in having me teach at their high school, and this was labeled and arts and art school, and this was labeled an art school.

And I really went back and forth with it. There's that fear of having a one year stint of teaching on your resume that I was really nervous about, but at the time, I had just read a book that my dear friend, Emily Wells from graduate school recommended to me called lean in. And the book is by Sheryl Sandberg of Facebook. And it talks about that. So oftentimes as women, we fail to lean into things that we want to do. We don't apply for jobs that we want, because or that we even might want until we're positive that we do want them and that's so many times not the case for men, men will go after something just to see what happens and then make a decision if it's for them or not. 

And that book really captivated me and I thought, you know, switching schools and go into this arts charter school is is a risk, but maybe this is the universe telling me to lean in. And so I did, and I leaned in and I resigned from the middle school and began at the charter school. And there was a lot of things that I learned from this charter school experience as well. And it was ultimately not the right fit for me based off of several different factors. I loved the students, I loved what I was teaching. But even though the school was labeled and identifies as an arts school, there were components of it that I didn't agree with fundamentally as to ways in which it would support itself as an as an art school. This charter school was one that accepts everyone as a lot of charter schools are I think there's the stigma that charter schools are only open to certain people. And the school is not we had a lottery if you were interested in applying you applied for the lottery and you you joined the school that way.

And the problem was, I didn't agree with the academic structure of how the students were expected to grow as artists, particularly as an art school. And I didn't agree with some fundamental things with how the teachers were treated and I really was disappointed in the leadership that I'd seen exhibited from the Head of School at that time. And again, I taught there for an entire year. Loved the students loved the students loved what I was teaching, and that summer, Sanderson which is a is close to a high school experience you could get in regards to being similar to my high school choral experience. The choral teacher, they're retired and he had been he was incredibly or is incredibly well known across the state. And amazingly reputable coral program. And, and ironically at this point I'd bought a condo. And it was literally the closest High School in all of Lake County to my condo. And when I say closest, I mean a mile and a half away from where my my house is. 

But I didn't apply for the position because again, I didn't want another one year backed up to at this point, it would have been to one year since teaching high school back to back on my resume. And I wasn't ready to give up on longleaf yet, and I wanted to give it another year and see what more I could learn and how I could continue to grow the program there. And when that second year at longleaf began, it was very clear to me that this was not the right fit for for me any longer. But again, I was committed to staying through at least another year and then and then begin to look and that October the position came open at Sanderson again, the person that they had hired to fill that job was essentially asked to step down. 

And I worked like nobody's business to get in for an interview. And that, again can be another episode on interviewing and getting your foot in the door for positions that you're interested in. And long story short, the Wednesday before Thanksgiving, I went in for my interview for the choral music position and got a call from the assistant principal several hours later, offering me the position at Sanderson to which I happily accepted. And the following week, I resigned from long leaf giving a 60 day notice and that was that was actually the hardest Goodbye, I think, to any students I've almost ever had because I was emotionally so bonded with those students. And I, they understood why I was Leaving, but particularly leaving in the middle of the year was hard. But again, they understood they were amazing and how they handled it and still continue to allow me to be a part of their lives. They've not harbored you kind of like hate or malice, that I know of, to me about that they got it. You know, I think every time I've left in a situation like that, it's easy to not give kids as much credit as they deserve for the resiliency that they are capable of. And I started at Sanderson in January of 2017.

And had found my place like I can't express to people would be like, how do you like Sanderson? And this is the Dream High School choral gig. It has this insanely long history of choral music excellence. I mean, when I got there, it was another quiet room I had to clean out in Oregon. Again, there were like newspaper clippings from when Norman lube off had come in and worked with the choir for Walton music, because Walton was based in Chapel Hill nearby. The Alumni Network for the choir was just really strong. And I just felt so blessed to be there. The faculty was lovely. Everyone was excited to make music and because they'd been through a more trying experience the semester before with a choir teacher that didn't work out. They were really happy to have me.

It was lovely. And I loved my Sanderson experience. And so after about a year now, amidst all of this, too, I'd been working at a church and I was a traditional music director at a church and my kind of dream gig. I had a set salary number that I always wanted to make my man my mind and I was working closely towards that I had this church gig that I absolutely loved, like, you could not ask for a better church choir experience. They were the most flexible, easy to please. Well, or I guess when I didn't place them, they kept their mouth shuts and didn't for the most part, let me know if they were just such an exceptional group of people to work with that in and of itself is a whole other story. 

Because there were times that I brought myself to that position and I was not in the best headspace because I was going through so many, you know, 40 hour week job challenges from my quote unquote main job while also having this side gig. I loved working with that choir, and I ultimately left that position in and may do to and by May, I mean October due to a difference of opinion with the with the pastor to be blatantly honest and part of it was the schedule of having to work every Sunday was was pretty grueling. For for me I it was hard to travel and make plans with friends and it goes into again this whole life journey This episode is turning out to be way longer than I expected. But here it is. 

But I ultimately left because it in my mind. And honestly how someone has explained it to me before you know, when you work in the church ministry. You can have a pastor who is a really great leader, and maybe they're not such a great pastor. And you can make a concession for that. And then you can have a pastor who's the exact opposite, right who is an excellent pastor, but just not someone that you really work on. Very well under and this pastor with whom I'm speaking of is, was a new pastor that we had come to the pastor that had hired me had retired. And in my opinion, and for me and my lifestyle and my personal and religious beliefs, this new pastor that had come in, for me, did not to align with the kind of leadership that I was looking to be a part of, and the type of theological message that I wanted to be represented under.

And I think that being in church music ministry, is an extension of the church as a whole. And if I am going to be in full time ministry, or full part time ministry, I want to be working in a church where I can, first and foremost recruit singers to be a part of a congregation that I believe in and I believe in the theology and the message that's being taught. And and secondly, I want to work with Pastor, all staff to build a service that is reflective of the type of community that wants to be built. And I felt like I was morally, ethically religiously misaligned with where that leadership was going. So as hard as it was, I did resign from from that position as well through amidst all of this, but I would say a year ago, when I was completing my national boards, I began to feel this calling to pursue an MBA again, I began looking at online courses and, and thought, you know, once I get my national boards, I would really love to start doing online classes for an MBA because at this point in my life, y'all I'm working at an amazing High School and an amazing is a reputable choral program.

 And there are a lot of things about the running of a choral music program that I did not feel as if I was excelling in. Not that I needed to excel in everything but but there was a lot of stuff I didn't know and remember how I'd shared at the middle school that I struggled with teaching students how to read music, and they had no prior experience to really reading music or they've been big gaps in their music education. Well, throughout that process from that year to to being at Sanderson. I worked my tail off learning and trying new things and going to conferences, notably hashtag Carol Kruger is Bay and by going to these different professional development and learning workshops to master that to hack that, so that I could be a better teacher in regards to music literacy. And I felt so grateful for how many skills I had developed in that arena. 

But then I just really realized there's I'm not doing a great job of mastering of being a great business leader for the organization. And there was so much more I wanted and needed to be doing for a booster organization, but I just really lacked the training. And I was struggling to find parents that had experience and desire I was struggling with how to motivate and bring in parents to effectively manage and run a booster program. And I realized that there were a lot of weaknesses that I had, that I wanted to I had a desire to know more about and to do better for. And, in my mind, that's where business classes and ultimately an MBA would help me bridge some gaps and make some parallels between the Running of a business and the running of a school choral business. 

And so I fast forward to this January, I had the conversation with Chad and Jessica, who Jessica and I became friends when we were teachers at the School of the Arts together. And she was on her journey outside of education and figuring out if she was going to continue to teach or interprofessional world. And Chad had been in the army for a number of years, and was now in the professional world, working with a great kind of startup company and, and I just thought now is the time I have my national boards and I have my master's degree. I've been so fortunate to the part that November for the audition choir that I conducted at Sanderson to perform to the North Carolina Music Educators conference. And so then on top of all of this is the personal element of the mindset of pursuing a business degree and where I was in my life. 

You know, I turned 32 in October, and I struggled throughout all of my 20s to find comfort in who I was, regardless of my relationship status. I can't tell you how many weddings that the honor like legit honor of being a bridesmaid and, or and also just attending and I felt very much so not good enough. are not validated or not seen, because I was not married because I was not having kids and all of all of my friends for the most part, were in that stage of their life. And I was really, really struggling with that. So I'm bouncing back and forth a little bit back in time but so I just left off in January where I began talking about MBA stuff was just contrived, but I want to jump back actually to the summer before that. I had been I dated a couple people through this and especially and that summer, I've been dating someone that end of the school year into the summer that I was really beginning to fall in love with and when that relationship ended painfully I was at a really low, really low place. And I was actually in Mississippi visiting a friend of mine for her birthday. 

And the guy that I was dating at this time was supposed to come with me and it was going to be you know, a bunch of us and for the first time I was going to be with all of my friends and not be like the odd wheel out, as I have always been. And we were sitting at a Mexican restaurant having dinner, and the checks came. And I said to someone I said, like I said to the waiter, I said it, you know, it's just me and I had been texting with or no, I hadn't been texting with the guy that I've been dating. This might be again, too much information, but I feel like it feeds into it all. I posted a picture of all of us on Facebook because I love pictures. From the thing that we'd been at earlier, and it was my two best girlfriends at the time, and their husbands and me, so it was like the odd one out. And I posted it on Facebook and he liked it. 

And it kind of broke my heart because I was like, dude, you're supposed to be on this trip here with me. And you're liking this. It just really set me off and reminded me again, how alone I felt. And I that had all happened. He'd liked that when we're at dinner, and I was struggling with that. And our checks came in and said, Oh, it's just for me. And one of the other couples who I know but they're not like my friend friends, they're more friends with a friend I was visiting. He made a smart aleck response about Well, hey, since she's single, maybe you can to the waiter, like trying to just pointing out the fact that I was single and I was not. I was unattached and I needed like someone to take me out or I needed someone to like pick up the check or And it it just crushed me in that moment because it was like people say to you all the time as being a single person that like you are the only person that notice it no one else pays attention or some of my favorites are like you're still so young. I'm really not; everyone else was married or was also really painful as well. 

You just need to stop hanging out with so many married people and find single friends that it's like you can't exist at times within that arena without you like that you just don't belong. And I felt like with him calling that out was just a testament to the fact that even though people say they don't they don't notice or that it's not a big deal or that it doesn't matter, that you should be fine being single that like no even in a check coming out a meal with a group of people that someone feels like they need to you know, Identify the fact that you are by yourself. Again, this is a choir podcast, not like a life therapy podcast. But that weekend was really hard for me and an experience like that and just continued to I dropped my pencil, an experience like that continued to just like plague me in the fact of not feeling good enough. Because here's the stranger essentially an acquaintance like pointing out I'm alone.

And I got home from that trip to Mississippi, and got in my car to drive to a conducting symposium in Pennsylvania that my grad school professor was going to be teaching it and invited me out. And the other caveat of that was, I was really late in deciding to go because the guy that I've been dating, we were Originally gonna go on vacation together that week. And so I wasn't going to do the symposium, we're going to go on vacation. And then when we broke up and we didn't go on vacation together, and we, I decided, well, I'm going to the symposium then. 

And when I got my car to drive the however many hours to symposium, I thought you don't tired of listening to music. I want to listen to an audiobook. And one of the top recommendations on the audio book on Audible was a book called girl wash your face. And it was by a girl named Rachel Hollis, who had never heard of, and it was actually published through Thomas Nelson publishers and because of my time in Nashville and my experience as a like super conservative Christian growing up I knew Thomas Nelson was a Christian publishers, and I almost didn't buy the book because I was like, oh, Heaven, I don't need another like, Christian book telling me how to live my life and I can do I just wasn't in the right mental space to involve spirituality with what I was going through, but I can't explain it. I downloaded the book and I began listening to it. 

And that book served as a catalyst for what I now call the rest of my life. And if you have not read Rachel Hollis his girl washed her face. I highly encourage you to because there are several really great phrases within there and a couple that really stuck out to me was someone else's opinion of you is none of your business. And that was really relevant for me because it doesn't matter if a friend of a friend calls out my relationship status over dinner in regards to checks like that doesn't define me and I had been letting that define me. And, and the second quote that really stuck out with me from that book was that life is not happening to you. Life is happening for you. Life is not happening to you, life is happening for you. And even so when I say and think about that phrase, I think about hearing that for the first time. 

And I firmly believe that change does not happen like that. But hearing those phrases, reading that book, at that point in time in my life, something clicked. And I began to stop saying no to the person that I wanted to be into the things that I wanted to experience and letting the thoughts and mindsets of other people really define my own self worth. And that book changed my life. And I can honestly say that from that moment on, I began living as a If I were a different person, and I began living differently.

A lot of the things that are talked about in the book are talking about your mindset, and goal setting and, and setting a life setting gratitudes each day and taking care of your body in what you're eating. And I had already been talking about these and thinking a lot about these things and talking about food and how it affects us as musicians. We could talk about exercise and how it affects us as musicians. We can talk about just general self care and gratitude and how that affects us as musicians, and I've been working in all of these like different levels, kind of before then I'd been doing some kind of self care checklists from someone that I loved Danica Brescia who I love to follow, and I had done whole 30s before and really believe in a lot of the things that that promotes.

 But again, this book just really kind of tied it all together for me. And I began dreaming. And one of the things that Rachel talks about in the book and a lot of other people in this type of environment that is really growing and particularly through online platforms, is writing down dreams as if they've already happened. And, and, and, and thinking and dreaming about the person that you want to be. And so I began doing that I also began doing a gratitude practice of writing down five to 10 things every single day that happened the day before specific to that day that I was grateful for so not like, I'm grateful for the fact that there is coffee in the world but I am grateful for the coffee that I had yesterday morning. 

And the joy that it gave me because I was Cold and it was warm, or I'm grateful that I ran into Sarah between classes. And she smiled and asked how my day was. And being very specific in our gratitudes and as someone that has struggled with anxiety and depression before, that also really begin changing my heart and in doing these sorts of things in my daily life, I began bringing them more into my classroom. And I began bringing in more positive psychology and affirmations. And the more I began to give those also to my students and give to myself, I just I really began changing and, and loving myself. 

So in January at this point now, it's been several months since I've read this book, I began, really being mindful of what I'm eating and putting into my body, how I am working out how I am writing and journaling and goal setting every single day and I begin to be as much I loved certain aspects of teaching at the at the high school level again, like we're talking dream kind of choral music position job here. There were some things within the school that I didn't really love again from an we're sensing a trend here, I'm sure right of and i i really there's like this part of me that wants to be not tell you not tell you that because at Sanderson there was some administrative things I didn't love long leaf and at the church that I was working yet, but I swear like other places I've loved.

 But instancing these inconsistencies and struggles that I had I it also gave me a greater passion for leadership development and how our training leaders and how we are being leaders to those around us and how even though I didn't agree with how some of the leadership was happening in my building, I still had the opportunity to be the kind of leader that I wanted to experience myself to be that kind of leader for my students. So I began to consider an MBA program, because I decided I was going to continue to teach for the next two years, and complete online classes for the MBA and then kind of see where it took me.

And ultimately, going back to that passion of wanting to run the business better, of being a better choral musician, by understanding the business of it better. I could help other choir directors within that. I never wanted to be an executive director. I never wanted to be just an administrator of the arts and choral music, but I felt like it was really fundamental for me to be the kind of artistic leader that I wanted to be even at a school choral level to have this basis and have this knowledge and this leadership training that I really felt like an MBA world would give me because so many community choirs are filled not just with choral music, In high school choral teachers know they're filled with community members, they're filled with business leaders. They are filled with people from all different kinds of walks of life. And I wanted to be able to understand that better and also like, we are seeking funding and support from business communities. 

And if I can speak that language and understand where they're coming from better, I can be a stronger proponent for the work of choirs and making those connections and helping the arts but specifically choral music be seen as this valid thing to contribute to financially and just through singer presence. And I looked into NC State's program prior to I'd been looking at ECU because I thought their online program would be great. But North Carolina State was kind of like a reach and they had an evening class at night that I could apply to or go to and that was that.

 And so what's funny is there was an informational meeting that I was going to go to on a Monday night. And that morning, I'd gotten up and gone to the gym and my car was kind of acting funny. And so when I got back home from the gym, I thought, you know, I had first period planning, I was like, I'm just gonna take it to the oil place because the oil I did come on, and I called my school secretary was like, Hey, I'm not gonna be until second period, I'm going to get my oil fixed, or oil like looked at or whatever. And y'all I didn't make it like a mile out of my neighborhood. Literally, my car died. 

Long story short, don't take your car to Jiffy Lube. Because that's where the last oil change had happened. Then put the oil plug on, I did end up again, getting a new car at some point because the engine was not going to be as reliable because I'd been running without oil for who knew how long because it didn't have oil plug in it. So I didn't have a car. Then I did the informational meeting and I felt like it was Satan being like Maha you're not gonna go or to this informational meeting at NC State. My mom blessed her soul and knew it was very important to me. So she came in addition to helping me out with car stuff that day and like dropping me back off at school so I could finish teaching. 

I showed up late to the second period because I was stuck on the side of the road. And you know, anytime you're stuck on the side of the road with a bad car issue, it's gonna rain which it was doing that day. But my mom came and like loaned me her car to be able to take it to the informational session at NC State and I remember thinking like yes, this is like I can so see myself doing this I'll do online classes, and they have evening classes that you can go to and in my conversations with Jessica so I NC State was kind of like Okay, I'm gonna do NC State and maybe I'll put it into you but I think I really would like to do in person classes and I can go at night and and knock this out. 

We can talk about Jessica Chad, and Chad was really invested in Duke's MBA program, and I thought you know what Chad, like this is, I'm a huge Duke fan. Like Let me tell you a Coach K is gay and I love to ask All more than life. Well, not more than life but you know, equal. And I said Chad to business schools in the valley, Nabi people. I was bringing in a lot of these narratives that I had picked up from my family's lack of experience in the business world. And I just, he was like, I really think you should look into Duke Beth. I really think you should look into a Duke and his wife Jessica, my best friend is Beth you never know. You just never know. So I went to a women and business seminar that Duke did. And I cannot express to you how utterly captivated I was with the school and with the program and I left from that experience. I entered that experience struggling with feelings of inadequacy because I was not going to measure up also in the fact like I'm quote, I'm using air quotes here. I'm just a high school choir teacher. And I really struggled to find identity and a sense of self in and seeing myself as a valid contributor to the business community because I was, again, air quotes, just a choir teacher.

And I left the experience, I found a group of people that were, that's a whole in and of itself, other podcasts about the journey to kind of where and why and how it all worked out. But I was set I was like, I'm gonna go to Duke that is and and then I'm, again another person, kind of like, I believe in manifestation to a certain extent, if you if you really, like you can manifest something to happen because you believe in it enough. And if you believe it to come true, it will. And I just, I fully believed that I was going to end up  at Duke and then I began to metaphorically to get a full ride. So I worked my butt off to begin applying to Duke again, I was just going to do their weekend program and in talking with school counselors at Duke, they they you know, with your background and experience, we really think the daytime MBA program would be something you should consider, which is their full time program, which was so hard for me to even wrap my brain around because I was not going to leave the choral classroom yet I was going to do this degree online. 

And, and there was still so many other thoughts and ideas that I had in the four standards and choir that I wanted to do, but I thought I can't express to you that I just knew that I had to go after this full time position. And again, I thought, well, if I'm gonna apply to Duke, this is the way to do it. And this is the way to get the best scholarship stuff is to do the full time program. And NC State was kind of like this afterthought. Sorry if anyone's listening to this about NC State. No, nothing like super bad against it, but I just was captivated by Duke and you have to understand to her oh my gosh my essay to do I still don't understand they must not have read it because I feel like it was pretty baller because it talked about my journey and my passion for Duke and why I felt like I had the heart and hustle in order to be a great representative student from Fuqua School of Business here. And since I decided to apply full time to Duke, I thought, I'll just, I'll just apply full time to state Well actually, that's not true. 

I had my interview at state before I even completed my application because they do that there. And in the interview, I talked a little bit with the dean about the full time program versus the online program. And I remember saying that I'm going to apply for the full time mainly because I wanted to see if I would get a graduate assistantship or not, which covers tuition and health insurance, which is huge, in addition to like a miniscule stipend, so I applied to Duke applied this age, just you know, whatever, I'll throw that in the, in the bucket. And I can't tell you how much I worked on these applications. And I could tell you more about that. But that stays away from the alignment of how this relates to choir. And long story short, I did not get into Duke. 

And I found out that I didn't get an interview like a week before our spring break. And that spring break, I'd already lined up to go sit in in some classes at Duke and sit in a class as a state. And I went to Duke still set it on classes knowing that I didn't get into the first round of interviews and still left that day being this is the place for me. I just love it. I love the people here. Everyone is so friendly. Everyone is so open and diverse and just really cool. I went to state and sat in on a class, which again, I didn't have a great interview, not interview, but experience with scheduling certain things at state because previously I tried to go to a class and the class like, wasn't meeting, and I showed up and no one was there. And the person that was helping me didn't know where the class was, it was a whole snafu. So she ended up connecting me with this class that I went to on spring break. 

And I love just, I love the content with what the class was talking about in regard to some business strategy and it was their last class of the semester and I'll never forget this. The professor is closing wrapping up class and I don't even remember kind of the context of what it is how and why. I guess maybe he was talking about the case study from Harvard Business School that we were looking at was that on three m you know, they make like the posted And paper products, etc. I don't really know all they make, but I know this. And he was saying that asking the class he didn't know how post it notes were made in class was like, Well, no. And they had been working on this type of rubber at 3am as a binding agent, and it wasn't strong enough, it wasn't strong enough for them to hear whatever they were seeking to hear from it was only like, strong enough for paper to kind of adhere to paper. And the guy that was a part of this project saying was in Minnesota too, which is where three and headquarters are. So what Minnesotans do, besides shovel snow, they sing. 

And this guy Arthur was in his church choir and he was so annoyed with his hymnal that he kept putting little slips of paper to mark his place in the handle and those slips of paper would fall out and I was super annoyed. And so he had the idea well, what if I took this adhesive and put it on a piece of paper and use it to mark the hymns in my head? No. And thus we have the post it note without choir. Without church choir there would be no post it notes and that like that's here Okay y'all you have to understand sitting in this room as a high school choir teacher with like 30 Business School students. And here is this professor and I'm making this decision of going to business school but here's this professor talking about how this this product that probably all of us have used at some point today, if not, at least a couple times within the week stemmed from a man's experience in choir seidner Don't worry, I've already tried to get him I am still working on trying to get in touch with him because I think you'd make an amazing podcast interviewer for choir baton but anyhow it just like that.

Okay, universe I hear you. 

And so I still wasn't really sure when I was I Well, okay, so I, there were things I didn't honestly love about state at first, within this and I still, even though I had that really cool choir experience with the professor at state, I still go to Duke and I was convinced that I was going to take another year and apply to Duke again for the next year. And at this point, because Duke was like my dream, I thought, well, maybe I need to look into getting some sort of corporate job or startup job to get better references and gain different experiences. 

So I am more like marketable or have more business experience that Duke would look at me differently. I bought gr ebooks to begin studying for the or actually I guess I bought g map books. I take In the gap for Duke, but now it's going to take the G mat and really work to have a baller score because unfortunately my GMAT score wasn't all that great again, this goes back to college because I had taken all like music classes in college I clipped out of all my I've been 15 years at this point since I've taken a math class. And that last math class I took was advanced functions and modeling or AFM and not like high up there on the level of, of math. Plus the years it's been since I used it.

And then the day of my spring concert, I got the email from State offering me a graduate assistantship, literally like I am in between concert stuff and I get this email. And remember I said I'd applied to State just to see if I would get it GA-ship and at that point I think I knew I had to do it when the time was right. I would always have more things that I would want to try in the school choir room and other things that I would really love to do but I just felt like that the time was right that this was that this was it. And ironically, you know, I'll never forget so much of what we do is for me as a conductor, I end up programming music that is a part of what I'm going through in my journey and in my life. 

And I programmed this last like set of music for spring concert that started with an audition group called the sandpipers singing the beginning of a song you will be found which the Prior to I had had I on repeat literally on my phone, radio computer, whatever because I just heard it from the dear Evan Hanson musical. And I was really struggling at that point to be found. And I felt like that is such a message that high school students need to hear that you will be found it was the message that as a 30 plus adult I needed to hear is, you know, even when the dark comes even when the dark is coming through, when you need someone to care for you when you're broken and alone you will be found and that's like a brief paraphrase, but I programmed that piece and so sandpipers began seeing the first part of that and then there's this like beautiful, but innovative introduction, or mid part introduction in the middle of the song, and then all the other kids got up and sing it and they finished singing a song and then that moves directly into phase. Emily from Dream Girls. 

And then we did our senior recognition with that music playing in the background and the kids finished we are family and then without missing a beat the psi da, da, dun dun dun, dun dun. And we went into seasons of love, which I have always known it's like, ridiculously cliche, but I've just kind of always loved that song. When I student-taught the kids did that song. It was a big song. The movie came out when I was in college and my friends and I loved it. And the fact that it talked about different seasons of life, and it just was centered around where I was going. So I will always remember that, that concert that last part of the concert knowing that this would probably this would be the last time I'm standing on the stage conducting these kids and of course the kids didn't know it at this time.

Like no one really knew it. I guess except For me, but I want to go back to as I've made this decision, how it plays a purpose in who I am as a person and some of the personal things that I shared with as being a female. I think so many. So many times I shied away from business, because I felt like I had to.

I couldn't be in business and I couldn't make it wasn't their best career to set me up to be a wife and a mother and I was waiting for my life to begin when I got married and had kids because that's what my friends did. And that's what I was seeing around me and not that that's wrong. But what if that was not the path for me and what if I stopped defining my success in my life and my self worth on that. What if I took this dream of business inside of me and pursued that? more actively? And like, what what if I let go of what other people thought about me and started living about how I wanted to think about myself and going after the big dreams and and I was so afraid in quitting leaving the high school classroom and not being a high school choir director and I'm using air quotes as I say this, that I would not be a choir director anymore, or people. 

Whenever you talk about teaching people always say people always say things like, it's okay teachings, not for everyone or the Just say kind of like demeaning things about when people decide to leave. And for me it wasn't about leaving because it was hard, although it is really freaking hard. It wasn't about leaving because I couldn't do it because I could and I have and I've done it. It was leaving because I also have this other dream in my life and this other dream in my life is to know more about business. And when people say what do you want to do with a business degree? No, I have big dreams. And at the core, and as terrifying as this is to like, put this out there. My dream is to change the world through choir. My dream is to change choir, through what I'm learning and going to be learning as a business student and as an MBA. 

I Graduated just like I have learned through being a music education and choral conducting graduate. I believe that the two are so fundamentally intertwined. And I think that there are so many concepts from choir that we can put into business and make businesses stronger and more collaborative and more synergistic and more inclusive. I believe that there are so many things that we need to learn as choir conductors and artistic directors of choral music that come from the business world that we have shied away from because we think it's an other or we think that leaning into some of these business principles will take away some of our artistry, and we'll we'll limit what we can do. Do and I have always believed this but I'm excited to lean into this a bit more. 

And just like I've focused for the last five years, to bring music literacy to my students and to help my students understand how and why. To read music and understand music and feel music and write music effectively and efficient, efficiently. I want to take what I'm going to be learning for the next two years in this classroom, and provide resources and a knowledge and understanding for fellow choir directors to be better business leaders of their choir business and when I say choir business, I'm not saying it has to be incorporated. I'm saying like, anytime you step in front of an ensemble, you are leading a business and your business can be looked at one or two or both ways your business is like empowering better singers and musicianship, your business is also providing a musical product to an audience that challenges audience members to engage with music, whether it's just for easy listening or fun or laughter or thoughtful or provoking, things like that. 

This is a product here that we are bringing. And it's an amazing product. And I think that we've got to do better as a choral music community in selling our products better and bringing it to the masses and, and I'm not looking to like schmooze it or make it less than like, No, I'm talking about like, legitimate stuff here. Legitimate music making, that we have got to do a better job of reaching communities like those communities of singers that are worth With at that first middle school that I taught at after coming out of graduate school, there are more and more people that I firmly believe want to make music and need to make music and choir is the place where they can do that. But we've got to be better, we've got to be better, and we've got to be more strategic. 

And we've got to think outside of the box and we've got to embrace and engage with 21st century tools and knowledge that are now so much more available to us. Because also the business world is desiring to be so much more creative and inclusive and all of the things that we have said for years that we champion as choirs. I, every article that I'm reading on businesses, I'm like, yeah, choirs have been trying to do this for years or have been doing this for years. And I think that we as a choir community, can really truly teach the business community some things as well. 

So if you're listening to this and going like, well Beth, why do you want to like there's a course America does a lot of this stuff and they do really great advocacy programs and fundraising programs and they have great conferences and and stuff that you can be a part of I rah rah course america this is I'm not I'm not here to knock on course America and to be honest, I'm still excited to continue to learn more about course America, but I also think that and I spoke with course America representatives at ACTA that there's not a place for educators to learn the business of of running acquire of managing parent booster organizations and, and how do you look at fundraising and how do you look at marketing and how do you look at volunteer engagement in recruitment and, and building communities, particularly within school choral programs, we're not taught that and that was something that frustrated me the most as a high school choral director, because I knew that it was potentially vital to the success of my program and furthered success of my program. 

But I didn't have the skills and the training, and frankly, the time to investigate it like I wanted to. And so there's that saying, like, if if not using whom, and that's kind of where I feel with a lot of this is this is something that I've been waiting to have brought and to see and to learn, and it's not being done in a way that I need and so if not me, who's going to do it and that's something I want to do and learn better at learn better at, that's not a great sentence, but learn more from and learn more about. I in no means intend for this to take me out of an artistic space. In fact, I'm going to fight even harder to create artistic spaces for me to continue engaging with community members in conducting and teaching people how to learn. I'm excited to show up more in an online capacity to work with educators and end learners about being stronger musicians and I envision it as in like, my choral classroom is not going to be limited to the walls of the school that I'm teaching out but it's really only held captive by the community that I create online. 

So those are big dreams and it's not a set thing of what it's gonna look like. I really want to take advantage of my time in business school, to look in other types of not even necessarily nonprofit stuff. I think nonprofit stuff is great and has a place but I really want to look more towards for profit industries and see what they are doing. And how we can also model some artistic endeavors in that capacity as well. I'm, I by no means want to stick just in arts organizations, I want to Okay, I don't necessarily want to knock on wood like in turn for something super science based because I'll be the first person to say that like, science is not my strong suit watch any year from now. I will be like, Oh, I'm interning at a biomedical internet after that, who knows. But I want to learn and glean as much from other industries as I can during this time so that I can ultimately bring it back to this choral community and bring it back to you all. And so that lends us to what does this mean for choir baton? What? And y'all like this is just the beginning. 

I feel so fortunate that Choir Baton is a part of my life because even though I might not be in a rehearsal setting every day like I happen for the past nine years or more than nine years of my life. So I guess, goodness, it's since I started high school like, what is that nine plus 817 years that I've been in a choral rehearsal? Wow, I just thought about that. I've been in a choir rehearsal, like almost every day for the past 17 years. But I get to be a part of that now, through the work of Choir Baton. I hope that people will still consider me for clinician opportunities. That's what some of my favorite stuff to do is to do guest conducting whether it's for a day or whether it's for an all county or something like that. I believe that there's so much power through that. power through that meaning, like the opportunity to engage with singers in like those kinds of extremes.

 But I was just sharing like reading a book, you can just be a part of something unique and in a small, short amount of time like that. And I think that's really powerful and really cool. So in closing, I know I've rambled a bit. But actually, that's a lie. I haven't rambled. I feel like every facet that I've shared with you has been an important and an integral part to this story in this journey of me pursuing this degree. And I think that no, I know that what I'm going to learn in this program for the next two years, will only allow me to continue to help better the squirrel community by applying things that we can put into choir organizations, and I'm ultimately excited for other people to learn more about the choir community where they sing in high school choir whether they've never sung and acquire. I hope that my story is a testament to the fact of how influential the people that you surround yourself with can affect your trajectory for life. And I look back at my experience of working at E motiva and getting to know Dan and Kathy or if you have hung out with me or even like seeing posts on Instagram or Facebook, you've seen me reference my Nashville family and this is them.

And I don't think that I would probably be in, I would probably be pursuing this next step would it not be for the opportunities that they gave me to work in their business, but also the examples they set up for Kathy the fact that you can be in business and be an amazing mother as well. And ultimately they set an example that you can be in business and be great people and I didn't always hear that narrative as as a child or if I heard it, I didn't pick up on it as a child I interpreted a different narrative. I also for me, this journey is very much tied into my story of not being married and not having kids and being 32 where a lot of my friends are, and really coming to grips with being okay with that and being happy and myself and working on owning the phrase and realizing that I am enough. And the more work I begin to do with different people and the more understanding that I have, of the fact that we are not kind to ourselves all the time. 

Time or a lot of the time especially as musicians, whenever I am meeting with a student and working with even adults as well, I and I mentioned the phrase like you are enough You are so enough and I watch their faces when I say that I'm convinced more and more that the struggles that I've had in having dreams and not knowing how to go after them. For this case, my dream being going to business school and being worried of what people would say and oh you're not good enough like or whether they say it or I think that they're saying it like you're not good enough for this or you're not good enough for that. That I am learning to let go of what other people's opinions are of me because I have to have an opinion of myself and I want that to be a positive opinion about myself. 

And ultimately, if I have the first to the third shouldn't be what I'm basing my self worth and self esteem off of. And I have spent so much of my life doing that. And that's why in instances when you're in Mexican restaurants and a friend makes or a friend of a friend even makes like this jarring comment, like calling out the fact that I'm the only unmarried person at the table or what that felt like. I can hear things like that and not take them like I did that day. Now hear me what that what he said was wrong and uncalled for. And I and I think there's a whole other side of this to be brought about, like how people speak to single people, especially married people and all this kind of thing. But this whole sense of coming into defining what I want, what are my dreams? What am I grateful for? And am I taking care of my mind and, and body have have brought me to this place.

 And I just want to leave with some encouragement because I don't know if you're listening to this a, if you've made it all the way to this, I kind of Hope you think I have, because I want to just encourage you, if you are listening to this and thinking it's so easy for her to say it's so easy for her to act like she has it all figured out. Like I want to first and foremost say that this process is not easy, and in some ways it's harder than other points in my life. But I think when you are reaching for something greater, it doesn't mean that the road is going to get easier, it means that it's going to be hard. 

But you're going to be more prepared for how to handle the difficulties. I also want to encourage you that some days are great and some days are struggling. But I'm learning to be more gracious with myself on the days when I am struggling. And if you are listening to this and still continuing to feel this narrative of doubt, and negativity and you find yourself in a space of just horrible self talk to yourself, the first step that I would encourage you to do, the first step that I began taking, is realizing that you were saying it in the first place, the moment I began realizing that I was saying so much negative things to myself. That was the first step. 

And the more you begin to notice the things that you tell yourself about these narratives that we have in our mind, then the next step is to stop them. Right? We can't stop something until we realize that it's happening. So you first have to realize that these narratives are occurring in your life. And secondly, you have to solve them. And then the third is you work to change them. And the fourth is that you're patient with yourself as you change them and realize that it's always a journey. And I think that embracing this mindset, and embracing this desire to be kinder to myself and more gentle to myself has made me a better musician. Because I have carried so much shame and self doubt, as who I am as a person into my singing into my conducting.

My voice is not good enough. I will never be as good as the singer. I can't sustain long phrases I have bad breathing. I struggle with rhythm. I am not as good of a music creator as I want to be. I realized that once I was saying so many negative things about myself as a person, I was also saying so many negative things about myself as a musician. And those are just singing examples. But there are also conducting examples as well. And if you think back to the story that I shared with you about reading the audio book, or listening to the audiobook of girl wash her face from Rachel Hollis, I was going to a conducting symposium. And that book changed my life as a person. 

And that book also changed my life as a musician, as a conductor as a singer, because the same life principles that I was reading about in that book catalyzed, they align exactly with who I am as a conductor who I am as a singer, who I am as just a musician overall. And that conducting symposium, I, I like stood up on that block with other people I didn't know a single person in the room, other than my conducting professor who, I love her. I think she's amazing. She's why I went to interview. 

But even having been out of the program for four years, at that point, she still like, terrified me to no end. And if you've ever worked with her, bless her. She's not like a warm and cuddly kind of person either. I caught up on that podium, y'all. And each time I conducted even times where I was like, Oh, no, what the hell I'm doing. I will say a little prayer through this. I sought to be as confident as I wanted to be and I thought to stand up there and, and lose that confidence to the singers and try to pull the best music out of them by showing them through my gesture and my alignment in my face that I believed in them. 

And I thought of them as capable music makers and worked to be even more collaborative with them. And in that process, and I felt like my conducting through that symposium was stronger than it has been at times where I've done similar experiences and been riddled with self doubt and a lack of confidence and not feeling good enough. And had I not read that book. Before going to that symposium. I don't think that my mind would have been as empowered to be as confident as I was that day and are those days and because I was as confident as I was those days. And just really seeking to own my own skin and my own gesture and, and work with the musicians and and view it as a collaborative space. I feel like the results were so much more positive than anything I could have hoped for before. So in closing, I cannot believe that this episode has been as long as it has been. And there's so many other parts to this journey that I could share to you.

But I want to thank you for being a part of Choir Baton. I am excited to see where this is going to continue to go because I am passionate about more people singing, because I believe that more people singing provides us an opportunity to engage and community in a way that a lot of us are missing these days. I believe as singers, we have an opportunity to empower our bodies and power our voices and empower the bodies and voices of those around us. I believe as composers, you have the opportunity to bring powerful music to choral communities at a time where we need to hear important messages and, and try new different messages and have fun music and challenging music and easy music or like light hearted music, like what a gift that you give to us through through the work that you do to audience members and administrators, I think like, Oh, it's such an exciting time for the work that you do, whether it's by just coming to a concert, or whether it's providing financial and organizational support and personnel support, to choirs and then to choir conductors. We are not the be all end all to choir, if there's one thing that I am continuing to do. 

Try to draw out of the ensembles that I work with is that a lot of times the musical answers that we want the choir singers to sing like we want a certain phrase this way, or we want a tuning certain weight that already exists within them within their musicianship. But it's our job to and I say our job, I mean, like, truly our opportunity to help them find that within themselves. And to help them realize that that answer that music, that voice is already within them. And if they listen and believe in themselves, that that's where the music is, and that like, just exponentially increases musicianship. 

And we get to be so collaborative within that versus being like, a baby or a crescendo there, which don't get me wrong, I still yell plenty of that or say plenty of that, too. Let's be real, you know, I yell it. So folks, This is just the beginning. And I'm excited for a continuation of amazing podcast interviews throughout the next couple months, I guess, and ultimately yours as we continue to grow choir baton as a collaborative online space for all things, choral music. 

I'm your host, Beth Philemon. And I do so hope that you will take the time to give us a little like on iTunes or leave us a message about what you think about the podcast. If you like it, I mean, if you don't like it, just don't listen, you don't necessarily have to like to leave a negative response. I mean, I'm not saying you can't, but I'm just saying like, I'd love a positive one or maybe nothing at all. But if you do have constructive feedback and thoughts I'm here for that to my email address is be a [email protected] and you can also follow along with my choir MBA journey on Instagram at Beth philomon now and continue to follow along Choir Baton currently.

Our website is housed through my personal website, but we will soon be launching the choir baton website, the choir baton website in the near future but until then you can check out our online resources at methylamine comm slash choir baton store. I hope you're getting our weekly email. You can sign up for that the link will be in the bio here and I also send out a personal weekly email or weekly letter I like to say to subscribers that talks just kind of whatever is on my heart in mind for the week as it pertains to choir and life and now MBA life. Words back to back that's why it runs have a wonderful rest of your day. Be sure to share that you've listened to this on Instagram, Facebook, send a text a friend, send a friend a text and until then, keep singing.