Choir Baton Podcast Episode 9: Diving into Yoga Voice with Mark Moliterno

This two part interview features amazing insight into the life and work of musician and yoga teacher, Mark Moliterno. In this episode Mark continues elaborating on this sense of self and sound. Why is singing not a acalming activity for so many people? We often focus on teaching inhalation, but are we intentional about the how and why of teaching exhalation? The voice is an energetic instrument and Mark relates the voice to the different chakras, or energetic wheels that spin to build and disburse energy from the body. Mark concludes with how he integrates the yoga poses into his work as a singing teacher and how we can begin to consider yoga as a technology in which to approach our singing. 

Mark Moliterno (MM, E-RYT500, C-IAYT, YACEP, POLY®, FOUNDER OF YOGAVOICE®) is an award-winning professional singer, voice teacher, yoga teacher, IAYT-certified Yoga Therapist, workshop leader, and author. He is a thought-leader in the area of 21st Century vocal pedagogy and a master teacher of both singing and classical yoga. His extensive performing career has taken him to many countries in a variety of leading operatic roles and as a concert soloist and recitalist. Additionally, he has completed more than 1200 hrs of formal study in yoga teaching and yoga therapeutics. A sought-after clinician, he presents YogaVoice® workshops at professional conferences and gatherings internationally. Mark is recognized for his one-on-one therapeutic mentoring and as a specialist in helping people understand and uncover their free, authentic voices.

Mark Moliterno holds the BM and MM degrees in Voice and Opera from the Oberlin Conservatory of Music where his mentor was the famous vocal pedagogue, Richard Miller. Mark was introduced to yoga in 1985 when he met and studied with Larry Payne, PhD in Los Angeles at Samata Yoga. Over the years he has studied and practiced Viniyoga, Classical Yoga, and Ashtanga Yoga and subsequently became an E-RYT500 and Comprehensive Yoga Therapist through the YogaLife Institute of Pennsylvania. In 2016, Mark received the credential, "IAYT-certified yoga therapist", from the International Association of Yoga Therapists and in 2017 he was credentialed as a Prime of Life Yoga® (POLY) instructor. His yoga mentors are Larry Payne, PhD and Robert Butera, PhD. Mark's yoga teaching style is unique and balanced, with detailed attention to the coordinated, responsive awareness of breathing, physical alignment, and mental focus.

www.theyogavoice.com | @theyogavoice

Choir Baton Host: Beth Philemon @bethphilemon | www.bethphilemon.com

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Mark Moliterno: What it really means is that what you have is what you have and it is good enough. And so that even extends into things like going to a practice room and spending time practicing. If you go to a practice room thinking, I'm not good enough, or I'm not good at this thing, and I've got to go do what my teacher tells me to do so that I can get better at something, what you're really reinforcing is the idea that you're not good at something.

Beth Philemon: Welcome to the Choir Baton, a podcast designed to engage with people and stories, ideas and inspirations stemming from choir. No other art form, no sport, no hobby, no business requires a group of people to execute a communal goal with just their voices. Join me, your host Beth Philemon, as I interview guests who are singers, teacher conductors, instrumentalists and community members. Together we’ll ask questions, seek understanding and share insight from our experiences in life and in choir. You're listening to the Choir Baton podcast where we want to know, what's your story?

Hey y'all and welcome back to another episode of the Choir Baton podcast. This episode will blow your mind. You're about to listen to the second part of my interview with Mark Moliterno, founder of Yoga Voice. Yoga Voice cultivates personal awareness, authenticity of communication, and the vocal artistry that contributes to the wellness in our culture. Now as I previously shared, I do have to apologize for some creaking and clicking in the audio. My desk chair is a hand-me-down from my grandmother's dining room set and although she is my favorite person, unfortunately, her chair is a little rickety, and I didn't realize how rickety it was until I was listening back to this audio. So my apologies for the interjections that you'll hear. Let's just consider it her little contribution to the interview. 

Now, in part one you might remember we heard Mark’s journey to singing, performing, and teaching. Mark defined what yoga is and he outlined yoga as this technology and it consists of the Eightfold Path. From there, Mark identified the point of entry for yoga practice as this understanding of Asana or noticing of breath and movement and how as singers and as conductors, a better understanding of Asana is really cool because breathing is considered the main job of a singer just as movement is considered the main job of a conductor, but truly these two are intertwined or yoked together. 

We then delved into why as singers, if breathing is our job, and breathing deeply is this calming activity, why do we often struggle with this performance anxiety and how that affects the sound that we make? In part two of this interview, Mark continues to elaborate on this ideal and this sense of self and sound. Why is singing not more of a calming activity for more people? Why do we often focus on teaching inhalation but we aren't as intentional about the how and why of teaching exhalation? Mark also describes the voice as this energetic instrument and he correlates that with seven chakras within the body. Mark goes on to explain and show us how the two are correlated in this part of the interview. I hope that you enjoy the second part of my interview with Mark Moliterno, founder of Yoga Voice.

Mark Moliterno: Singing, because we exhale longer than inhalation should always be a calming activity.

Beth Philemon: And I laugh because it is, unfortunately, the exact opposite for so many people.

Mark Moliterno: So then you ask, why? And part of it is, ego is not a dirty word, ego is a reality, but the ego-self that tries so hard to do things right, to be correct, and to do things correctly. So, that's one of the reasons why people get stressed out. But another reason I think is that when-- if you have not learned to really release your exhalation during singing, if your tendency is to try and manage your breathing by not letting go of your breath fully, what you're really doing is you're holding your breath and you're holding your breath in an activity that is asking you to release your breath, to exhale. So that's creating a sympathetic response. It's creating a sympathetic response that does not allow you to be really in balance. And so when people hold their breath in singing they become anxious. So I find that breath management techniques in singing really are more about learning to release your breath rather than to manage the inhalation. It's about learning how to manage your exhalation.

Beth Philemon: I mean, that's huge. It's huge. It's a complete shift of framework to think about how we're teaching the exhalation because we spend so much focusing on the inhalation and there's so many parallels in life and in music making to focusing on the wrong things. But that’s huge!

Mark Moliterno: It is. I do think that there's been a misunderstanding of this whole concept of appoggio and the idea that appoggio is somehow the retaining of the inhalation form as you exhale, which is the way a lot of people conceive of it. I see it completely differently. I think appoggio is actually the combining of inhalation and exhalation forces so that you never let go of the essence of an exhalation which is a sense of peace and calm and sort of grounding on inhalation, you never let go of the exhalation form, not form, but sort of the essence of the exhalation. And then on exhalation you never let go of the essence of the inhalation. You're always looking for a balance of the two and what that does is it regulates the amount of air you take in and it also allows you to exhale with a sense of not collapsing. So it's a question of joining those two forces again, which again, is the yoga, it's the idea of bringing two opposing forces or what seemed like opposing forces or opposing energetic values into one thing.

Beth Philemon: Right. So I feel also that we don't teach that the core of healthy breathing is a true exhalation, that tendency to hold on which I think is a very human tendency to lose control, right, to fully exhale is that fear of a loss of control and so much of that loss of control-- or we want to control what happens because we're also fearful of the voice that we have which I think then is another tenet of what you preach and are so great at talking about is that the voice is inside of you.

Mark Moliterno: Yeah, I think I said in my presentation at Duke that I tell my students often, your voice is never going to get any better than this. Yeah, it's never gonna be different than it is. It's not like we have an inferior instrument and we can suddenly turn it in and trade up and upgrade to a Steinway. We have what we have. Our voices are an instrument of muscles and cartilages and ligaments that are there from birth and we can't exercise a larynx and put in a new-- I mean, you can I guess, but it's just not the way we do it. But what we can get good at, what we can improve at is understanding that instrument and understanding that which is already within us. And the technique that I see is a way-- it's a specific technique of learning how to get out of the way of what is innately in there and provide the environment internally and externally, in terms of structure, in terms of energetics, and in terms of self awareness, that allows your voice to be its best. And best even is a relative term and best is a dualistic term. But to, let's say, allowing your voice to be true, or authentic, or even just available to your artistic impulses, I think that that ultimately is the signal that you're really in balance and that you're really connected to a yoga within yourself in terms of singing is if in the moment of an inspirational idea or a moment of inspiration and performance if your instrument will simply respond to your thought. That’s, I think, probably the ultimate goal in this work is to be able to be responsive and not reactive.

Beth Philemon: I think that's a fearful thing for singers and then also refreshing and they, again, teeter between the duality of, the voice is what you have, it can't get any better. And that's terrifying and empowering.

Mark Moliterno: Yeah, so again, and I think this language is kind of-- I mean, I say your voice is never going to get better but that’s a little bit tongue in cheek. Sure, you know, because it's a thing that everyone thinks their project is about. Everyone thinks they're trying to get better. Right? So when you say, well, you're never going to get better. So take the pressure off. So yes, it's a little bit empowering. What it really means is that what you have is what you have and it is good enough. And so that even extends into things like going to a practice room and spending time practicing. If you go to a practice room thinking I'm not good enough, or I'm not good at this thing, and I've got to go do what my teacher tells me to do so that I can get better at something, what you're really reinforcing is the idea that you're not good at something. You know, whereas if you go into a practice room saying, I have permission today to explore my voice. I have permission today. My goal or my objective or my intention today in practice is to practice these things, these techniques that are supposed to allow me to connect to some deeper sense of myself or to find my voice in a different way or to allow my voice to be released. That's a different thing that's more like self inquiry rather than self flagellation. 

I think that's why a lot of university students find it difficult to be motivated to practice. And some practice out of fear especially if they have a teacher who's difficult on them. They practice out of fear of being not prepared for their lesson. But my view is that there's a specific way, there's a technique to getting out of the way because anything else is about layering more things on top of your voice. And so the technique is about-- and there are specific things to do that allow your voice to be as authentic as it can be. And I will just say this too in just wrapping this thought up is that I view the voice as an energetic instrument. So when we talked about in the presentation, the chakras, the energy centers of the body, and how what I've done with Yoga Voice relate those to the different elements of singing, systematic vocal technique. So different chakras represent the energy of different methods, different aspects of a complete singing technique and that we awaken the technique in the body by becoming aware of the chakra energy.

Beth Philemon: And also within that too, I think that that comparison culture is alive and well for university voice majors, but especially in a choral setting, that comparison of when you're standing next to someone and hearing some-- ugh their voice is so much better than mine, or we see it all the time even in choirs where they got a solo and I didn't or that whole comparison, I'm not as good or I'm a bad singer, etc, etc. is present in a solo, operatic classical singing world but also so present in a choral world and in society. I think it's why we're losing people on singing more and more for some of these reasons, but I love that you brought up the chakras because I literally just turned to that there's seven of them, yes?

Mark Moliterno: Right. There are probably thousands actually-- chakras represent energetic wheels in the body that are said to spin in a way that accumulate energy, that disperse energy, that hold energy, but they are sort of like little turbines in the bottom. And there are certainly traditions of yoga thought that say there are many, many, many, many chakras throughout the entire human body and the entire human system. The seven we talk about are the sort of foundational ones associated with a spine, they're said to be evolutionary, leading from the earth all the way up to the top of your head to that which is above us or we could even say the heavens. So, yes, and they represent different aspects in development, they represent different aspects of our mind, body, energetic system, or what we would have sometimes referred to as the subtle body.

Beth Philemon: And so what you've done is with those main seven ones that go along with the spine, and you mentioned too it's not something that we can actually see if we were to open up a cadaver, you're not going to be like, well, there's the first chakra that we talked about. But within these seven, which was root, water, fire, air, purity, command, and silence. Then you connected sounds that are paired with each of these chakras that unlock aspects within this.

Mark Moliterno: So the seven chakra is basically, just for absolute clarity here, they start at the root of the body, the legs and the feet. That's the first and the second chakra is sort of in front of the sacrum or the low belly, the hips and the reproductive organs. The third is at the solar plexus above the navel, the digestive organs and the solar plexus of nerve endings in the belly, the fourth is at the heart center, the fifth is at the throat, the sixth is at the center the brain or the third eye and the seventh is at the crown of your head. And these are associated with different things. So colors for instance, frequencies of light, so red, orange, yellow, green, blue, violet, indigo or white, the ascending order of light frequency. 

Then they're also associated with elements in nature. So first chakra is Earth, second chakra is water, third chakra is fire, fourth chakra, the heart, is air, fifth chakra, the throat, is space, sixth chakra is all of the elements, sort of the command wheel in the brain and then seventh chakra, beyond the elements. 

Then because the chakras are vibrational, and they have a certain frequency, as I said they attune to light frequency, that's why colors are associated with it. They also would correspond and tune to and harmonize with sounds. So what I taught in that workshop is the Bija Mantras which are called seed sounds and this comes from a tradition of yoga which is sound yoga. And so there are different sounds in each of the seven chakras. So the first chakra is Lum, second chakra is Vum, third chakra is Rum, fourth chakra is Yum, which is nice for the heart, fifth chakra is Hum, open spaciousness in the throat, sixth chakra is Ohm, which is the perfect balance of all sounds and then seventh chakra is silence. 

So those are the so called Bija Mantras. And then there are vowel sounds because the vowels have frequencies so there are vowel sounds associated with different chakra. And this is where sometimes you'll see some differences in the teachings on what vowel sounds are associated with different chakras. I place Ooh, the cardinal vowel Ooh in first Chakra, because it actually has the lowest frequency of all the vowels based on the second formant of the vowel itself. And then Oh, in the second chakra, Ah, in the third, Ay in the fourth, Ee in the fifth. So those five cardinal vowels in ascending order, from root to throat, correspond to the frequency of each vowel. And so we would say that those vowels also have a quality of being connected to the chakras. The Bija Mantras are said to activate the chakras. They're said to awaken and activate and bring stimulation to the chakras. The vowel sounds are said to be down regulating or cooling or sort of calming to the chakras. 

So it's interesting because as we sing, we're always saying those sounds aren't we? And then for the sixth and seventh chakras, we have nasal consonants that tend to resonate in the skull. So, Mm in the sixth chakra is the calming sound and then Ng for the seventh chakra. So this is how sound begins to work and develop our awareness of the chakras. And what I say about the chakras often is that again, we don't know what the chakras really are. What we understand about the chakras is that they help us to organize sensations in the body. They help us to understand where we feel things and how we organize an awareness of sensation. And this is really valuable for singers because singers sing essentially on sensation, they do not sing on listening. Listening is important, but your ear is already perceiving pitch and frequency just by nature of the instrument, of what we do, sound comes out of your mouth, travels across the skin of your face back into your ear, your ear perceives it. And those sounds send messages back into your brain.

So chakra has organized our awareness of sensation and when you take these yoga practices, which would use sounds that are specifically targeted to the different chakras, you begin to awaken the sensations in these different parts of the body. And then you make the connection with the voice technique. And you say, what about the first chakra, for instance, is mostly present is so important. What aspect of voice technique is grounding, is earthy, is sort of a sensation of stability and foundation. And you recognize that it's usually something like the onset of the phrase, how you breathe, and how you start the tongue. 

And then, the other thing I haven't talked about at all is the idea that each of these chakras have a particular Dharma or a purpose. And interestingly, the root chakra, the first chakra, the Dharma of root chakra is rhythm. So the rhythmic quality of breath, coordinating breath with sound, breath with sound, that's onset and release and then I've associated different other aspects of voice technique with the different chakras. I associate registration and flow with second chakra, agility factor with third chakra, dynamics and sostenuto or sustaining the voice, legato we could say, fourth chakra, fifth chakra is resonance and articulations, sixth chakra is intention and prephonitory or preparation. And then seventh chakra is inspiration. So all of these need to be aligned to be part of a whole voice approach to the singing. And that's exactly the way I was trained as a singer was that each of these components could be taken out and worked on individually in practice but then they all came back together into a unit to picture when you sing a song, so that's the approach of systematic voice techniques. So I discovered that I started to realize that systematic voice technique is a yoga too, it's about bringing back these individual aspects of singing technique which in the end always have to come back into one unit of approach to the singing of the song or piece.

Beth Philemon: That's a perfect summation of it all. And I just also have to share, I had seen Mark talk about this in two different sections. And then the coolest thing-- well, it was all amazing, but one of the most unique things was the masterclass at the end of this. So if you're listening to this, and you're going, okay, this is making sense, it's resonating with me. But again, integration of it-- what was so fascinating is we had a mini master class at the end of this and three different singers got up, and I've sat through a kajillion master classes, and I have never seen one like this where the student got up, sang their piece, and Mark goes up and works with them and you know, this cute thing of, okay, they've done it again, it automatically sounds better. Well, it's gonna sound better the second time because that's just-- they're not as nervous. 

But the cool thing was there were singers of all different levels, I think maybe a collegiate or just out of college soprano, a young baritone still in high school, and then a professional soprano within the area. And as he began to work with them and listen to things he would move them into these poses that, and tell me if I'm saying this wrong, that aligned with a chakra that-- they all melded together of something that we needed to improve on with the voice whether it was a freedom, you remember the soprano, the freedom within her voice just completely opened up and relaxed and you moved her into a side angle. I've never seen, I've never heard a change of sound like this. I've never seen people listening-- and these were people that were, some of them weren't classical singers, some of them were-- some of them had zero training, some of them had a ton of training. But regardless of who you were in that room, the sound quality was noticed by all because it was so enhanced, but it was just through integrating and listening and adding in these poses that then correlated to the chakras that you felt could be improved.

Mark Moliterno: What I do is I listen to the singing. I observe, I look at the body and I look at certain key aspects of the body in terms of alignment. I look at the body in terms of the seven chakras and what is in alignment and what appears to be out of alignment, and then I listened to what's being presented in the singing and I listen to the things like timbre, I listen for what is present in the voice first, I look for what is positively there. And then I begin to observe what might be sort of not as completely present. And I observe certain things and I listen to how the voice is spinning, if the voice has articulation, if the sostenuto is good, all these different aspects and then I equate those with the chakras. I see them from the point of view of the energetic system and that's why I think the voice is an energetic instrument. 

So I look at the voice and listen to the voice energetically, what's present, what isn’t present, what needs to be stimulated a little bit. And then I put them in postures and I ask them to sing again. Almost always it releases the voice and brings awareness to the posture. And so I think that's really the most important part of it is that when the singer begins to understand and feel it within their own mind-body context in terms of the chakra, and again, that's why the chakras are so important to understand as a sensation, organizing model, when you start to understand for the sensation of the low back being open and released, and the pelvic, you know, the second chakra maybe being more available, and the sensation of the body being aligned in a different way, then you start to really own your technique, and then on the psychological level what typically happens is that people become less anxious, I say to them, what is that like for you and they say, I felt more calm. I felt more relaxed about this. I felt like I wasn't worried about singing the notes, I was interested in what would happen. 

And she said, I was no longer worried about whether the note was going to come out or not, I was interested to see what would happen. I was curious. And I think that means that you are now in a creative state of mind in terms of your nervous system. I think that puts you in a different kind of place creatively. And, again, the goal of yoga is not to get more fit, the goal of yoga is not to get better at anything. The goal of yoga is to calm your mind-body waves so that your suffering is reduced. So that you feel more whole and that you feel more creative and more yourself and understanding yourself better. So that can be the goal and in singing because the goal in singing does not have to be that you're better at anything. The goal in singing can be that through the process of singing you understand yourself differently. And then some of the pressure is off and trying in terms of having to be something.

Beth Philemon: So you now are the founder of Yoga Voice and have several writings and you've done books and stuff. But Yoga Voice is kind of the culmination of your life's work up to this point. And then also the outlook of where your life's work is going to continue within this path. So if people want-- you are open for workshops, and you're continuing to disseminate more of this for the community, right?

Mark Moliterno: So I typically do workshops, I do a week long intensive once or twice a year, where people can come and really sort of immerse themselves into the entire program. I do trainings where people can become either a practitioner, which is a less involved process, it's essentially a body of homework that you do on self study and then you come to the intensive and then you have the tools for practice for yourself. And then I also have a teacher certification. So I've had a number of people over the years say, this is great, I want to teach it to my voice studio. And then they try to go and do it and it's hard for them because they don't have all the information. So I've cultivated the teacher training program that I find that it's interesting for-- once people go through it, they actually kind of find their own use of the information. I know people who are using it therapeutically, I know people who are using it as yoga teachers, I know people who are using it as singing teachers. But the objective is to really learn how the information contacts you first, and then you're being able to help other people with it. So yeah, I do the trainings, I do workshops, and I've been doing writing and Instagram, the Yoga Voice and different projects, and I am working on my own seminal text of Yoga Voice so that's in the works also.

Beth Philemon: So people can find you. I didn't know that you were actually on Instagram. I will be connecting with you as soon as we're finished here. 

Mark Moliterno: It’s @theyogavoice. And that's also the name of the website is theyogavoice.com

Beth Philemon: Now if someone's listening to this, and they go yes, yes, yes and they're kind of like me and wanting to jump into things, before beginning Yoga Voice teacher training, do they also need to have yoga teacher certification as well?

Mark Moliterno: It's really helpful if they do. A lot of the language of the yoga piece is, it's helpful to have some background of that, but it's not a requirement of my program. Mostly I find that I do either have singing teachers who have some background in yoga, and are really approaching it from the point of view of how it will help their singing and they're singing teaching. And then typically what happens is that this whets the appetite-- I would say that a lot of this program is about yoga, and not so much singing because I assume that people are coming to it with their own understanding of singing. I do in my first module ask a lot of questions and get you to define what it is you already believe about singing and think about singing and so the systematic voice technique piece is something that-- it's a particular approach to singing based in Bel Canto methodology and the work of my teacher, Richard Miller. 

But I assume that people are going to have more information about singing than they have about yoga. So I try to keep a balance between the two. But it's a lot of discovery about how yoga informs our singing and informs us as artists and then typically, if they're not certified yoga teachers already, people get interested and they go on and they find a teacher training program for yoga. And eventually this Yoga Voice teacher training may also become a Yoga Alliance certified 200 hour class, but we haven't gotten there yet.

Beth Philemon: Awesome. Awesome. Well, thank you so much not just for spending a little over an hour with us today, but for being diligent in a lifetime of work and dedication to this practice that enables you to be able to share and bring these experiences of making us better musicians and better singers, but especially better people.

Mark Moliterno: Well, thank you and I'm so happy that you were there two weeks ago at Duke and it's great to meet you and I really appreciate your asking me to be on this program.

Beth Philemon: Absolutely. Absolutely. So friends again, go check out @theyogavoice on Instagram, on the website, they can reach out to you via the website and I can attest they are very quick to respond. That's how I got in contact with Mark about this. And again, he is open for different intensives--

Mark Moliterno: I was gonna say I do see people remotely too, anywhere in the world if somebody wants to connect with me and do some work via remote learning, we can do that too. 

Beth Philemon: Awesome. I'm excited to let this not be the end of this relationship and learning but hopefully just the beginning. So thanks again, Mark. 

Now if you're like me, you probably experienced many “aha” moments throughout this interview. I personally truly relate to Mark’s example of going to a practice room as an undergraduate or graduate student or even now as a professional and non-professional singer, and going to the state of self flagellation when I'm practicing, of feeling that my voice is not good enough and that I need to make it better. I had a voice teacher who would always ask me at the end of singing a phrase we are working on, how does that feel? And often I would feel like responding, I have no clue, I feel even more stressed out after singing that the second time knowing that you would ask me that question than I did the first because I was trying so hard to feel something different. Now, I have to admit, the ironic thing is I find myself asking that same question to my students at times, whether they're in a private voice lesson with me or in a choral rehearsal. 

So what I appreciate about the work that Mark is doing is that he's taking this tangible practice of yoga and giving it to us as a guideline, as a source to help us not just teach our students but also to teach ourselves how to better recognize, how to better feel, and how to help identify these sensations in our body. I love that he talks about yoga as a technology because I think so often the term technology is given a sort of like a bad thing or a taboo thing because we relate it to the internet and cell phones and computers. And I'm actually a huge fan of technology, of cell phones, computers, the internet. I'm here for it. I mean, after all, I do host a podcast and a social media takeover account. But what I'm not a fan of is how we have not yet developed a way to teach ourselves how to regulate how we interact with those forms of technology. We haven't learned how to really identify this sense of self and to be, at times, present with ourselves. And so by thinking of yoga as a technology for me, it kind of de-stigmatizes the term technology. I believe that Yoga Voice is this tool, is this technology that we as singers and of teachers of singers, we need this in order to better help understand our bodies and our minds so that we can access our truest voices in the 21st century. 

Thank you for tuning in to another episode of the Choir Baton podcast. As always, we would love for you to rate and review the podcast on iTunes. But more than that, I hope that you'll share the conversations that the podcast is engaging in with your friends and with the choir community. If you have questions or further ideas, please reach out to me via email or via Instagram. Be sure to consider taking over the Choir Baton Instagram account to showcase a day in the life of a choir singer, of a choir conductor. Or if you're not a singer or a choir conductor and you just love choir, I would love for you to take over the account too. If you're not yet following Choir Baton on Instagram, go and do that right now, @choirbaton.

You can check out, always, the work that I'm doing on my personal Instagram account, it’s @baphilemon, and again, thanks for tuning in to another episode, and until next time, keep singing!